On this page
-
Text (1)
-
Untitled Article
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
-
-
Transcript
-
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
Additionally, when viewing full transcripts, extracted text may not be in the same order as the original document.
Untitled Article
dilapidated state , and unless the committee were willing to see one of the finest statues in the metropolis fall to pieces , they should agree to the vote . Mr . Wise thought the repairs might wait . QLaugkter . * ) Their associations in connexion witli Charles I . were not of a character which should make them especiall y anxious to restore his statuo . He was more celebrated for his encroachments on puhlic rights and the violation of national liberties than for anything else . He admitted that as a work of art the statue was valuable ; it was one of Le Soeur ' s best . Mr . Disraeli was surprised that the hon . gentleman , shallow as might be his constitutional prejudices , did not . support the vote as a lover of the tiae arts . The vote was then agreed to .
On the proposal to grant 13 , 000 / . to defray the cost of collecting agricultural statistics , Mr . Cardwisll , in reply to Lord W . Graham , enumerated the counties from which statistics liad been obtained , including Norfolk , Suffolk , Hants , Wilts , Berks , the West Hiding of Yorkshire , and two or three others . Mr . Cayley wished to know why the process of collection liad not been more widely extended-Mr . Cardwell said , when the experiment was first tried great difficulty was found in collecting information . The vote was then put , 13 , 390 / ., for the works at Kingstown Harbour . Mr . W . Williams inquired if this was to he a final vote ? The expenditure on this harbour had been astounding . Mr . WiLSOipvas sorry to say that this was not a final vote , nor was it likely that at present there would be a final ¦ vote .
Mr . Williams urged that there ought to be an estimate of the whole amount required . The vote was then agreed to . On the next vote , 1 ( 5 , 889 / ., for raising an office for the Dacliy of Cornwall in Pimlico , Sir W . Moleswortji said , when , the other night he moved the . second reading of a bill authorising the building of an office for the .-Duchy of Cornwall , he promised that in supply he would state the exact object of the vote . It was Intended to defray the expense of raising a iiew office for the Duchy of Cornwall in place of the old one in Somerset-Louse .
Mr . W . Williams suggested that the Duchy of Cornwall office should be removed to the house formerly occupied by the Irish office . He complained that a sum of 4 . 67 , 000 ? ., including 150 , OOG / . from the commissioners of the Great Exhibition , had been appropriated for the purchase of land , and the objects for which at was required had never been stated . Mr . Diskakli explained that the complaint which the hon . member had made with regard to the voting of nearly lialf a million sterling for the purchase of land for public buildings , and jet that accommodation could not be found
for the officers of the Duchy of Cornwall , was unfounded , because a munificent sum of 150 , 000 / . had been given by the commissioners of the- Great Exhibition , nnd a sum of 200 , 000 / . had been voted for the purchase of land at Kensington , and a further sum of 150 , 000 / . for the purchase of Uurlington-house , yet it was not merely for the building of public offices that these sums were voted for the purchase of land . It was impossible to give an equivalent to the Duchy of Cornwall for tlie loss of their offices , and the country ¦ was bound to find the Duchy a proper place for the transaction of its business in return for those they gave up for the public convenience . .
Mr . W- Williams stated that what ho said was , no explanation was given of tlie objects for which the 407 , 000 / ., iucluding the 150 , 000 / . given by the commissioners of the Great Exhibition , had been expended . Mr . Wisk observed that the net of 1775 , which pave a vested interest to the Duke of Cornwall in the offices in Somerset-house , nnd which charged 100 , 000 / . out of the revenues for Unit purpose , was so contrary to Parliamentary usage that a subsequent act repealed it ; and ho doubted , therefore , whether the Duchy really possessed any vested interest in these ofliccs . Then there was no guarantee that the expenditure contemplated in this vote would not be exceeded . ( " Yes , there is- " ) lie was glad to hear that tho estimate was not to be exceeded . The Marquis of Ciiandos defended the vote , nnd denied
that tho Duchy of Cornwall were asking for any money for their own accommodation . This grant was required not for their convenience , but for the public convenience . Mr . Kisni > ai , [ j also supportod the vote . Mr . Uaufiici , i > thought some further explanation was necessary as to tho disposal of those sites , which ought to Ijo appropriated to Government buildings-Mr . Disuaicu was perfectly raidy to admit , as he had admitted buforo , that ho was tho party who hud renewed tho lease of Montague-house , and that ho alono was tho person responsible fur it . That louse- wns renewed to a distinguishod nobleman , who was a mombor of neither tho boon uninfluenced by parly feeling in tho slightest degree . But ha believed very equitable claims hud boon shown to exist for the renewal of tho lease and for making this case an excoption to tho rulo ho had laid down in referonco to the
ronowal of tho leases of crown property in such situations . Tho Cuancicllor of tho Kxuiiicqu I ' . u : Tho lion , guntloninn ( Mr . Hadlluhl ) having reminded him that , lio had given Honiething likoii pledgo to tho House- in connexion with this wubjoct , considered that ho owed u word or two of explanation . When ho stated that , his recollection ditto rod from that of tho right hon . gentleman , but that this import ) reluting to tho transaction wore at , tho Trcnmiry , and ho would I'xuinino thorn , Im had tho facts protty clearly in his mind , nil did not Hunk It , oitlnir wimi or just ,, hoiing lliat , tho afliiir ImU taken plaeo many months ami , to speak positively without rolornng to tho document . Tim right hon . mjntlonmn hurt , however , rendered any statement of hia uimeuoNsnry by tho explanation ho gave the- other woning , and after that explanation ho thought it linrdly nooownwy to l « y tho rumors on tho table . If , however , tho fion . oiitl « nan wl » l » od them n o 1 Sin , " »» S »» »» o eouBldorcd that an error in judgment had been committed in renewing the loam , of Moutnimu House , it waa only duo to tho right , & , „ . gentleman to Say
that nothing that liad occurred gave the slightest justifica tion that there had been anything more than an error in judgment . The vote was tlien agreed to . On the vote of 100 , 000 / . for civil contingencies , Mr . Williams said that many items paid under this head in the course of last year were very objectionable . He would not trouble the committee with all of these objectionable matters , but only pick out some of the worst . He found that several amounts were set down for progresses made by West Indian bishops round their dioceses ; he could not understand wliy these bishops did not pay the expense of these tours themselves . Again , for the clothing of the trumpeters of the Guards a sum of 1567 / . was put down .
That amount ouglife to have been in the army estimates , and then there would have been an opportunity of objecting to it . Another item was the usual payment to Lord Cranwortii on his appointment as Lord Chancellor , 1843 / . Why this was paid he ( Mr . Williams ) could not conceive . A similar item was 2000 / . to Earl St . Germans , on his appointment as Lord-Lietitenant of Ireland , and this was as inexplicable as the payment of Lord Cranworth . : To the solicitors of the Attorney-General , on account of charity informations , no less a sum than 4 Q 00 J . was paid last year . He did not think this cost ought to fall upon the country . Mr , A . Pellatt certainly thought that some explanation was due to the committee with regard to the pajment made to colonial bishops .
Colonel Dunnje took part , as to the mode of payment and regulations , and in the course of which , Mr . Newdegate complained that general officers would be subjected to loss by the change which proposed to take the clothing of regiments out of their hands . Mr . Sidney- Herbert , in answer to Mr . Newdegate , said he thought th « change would be not only economical as related to the public , but advantageous to the service and the officers who had the clothing of the regiments . The custom was to issue a sum of money to those officers , and they commonly gave a carte blanche for the clothing of the men of their regiments to some party , and made very little stipulation as to price . He very mncli doubted that such a system could have been carried on so long in any other country in the world with so little malversation . The vote , after a few words by Mr . Williams , was agreed to . The House resumed .
IRISH INDUSTRY . On going into supply on Monday , Mr . F . Lucas directed the attention of the House to the propriety of instituting an inquiry into the best means of promoting Irish manufacturing industry by training or apprenticeship schools , and other similar establishments . The honourable member said that it was a fatal mistake to suppose that Ireland was in the extremely prosperous state in which it had latterly been represented by some honourable members . He could not but regard the excessive emigration which was going on as a direct loss to the country , for that emigration was not so much owing to the existence of distress in Ireland as to funds sent by persons who had gone to America to their relatives at home . Something should be attempted to arrest this depopulation ; but it could only
Mr . Wii-sox said that the dioceses of thebishops mentioned by the hon . member for Lambeth consisted of various islands to which it was necessary that visits should be made . These visits were performed hi her Majesty ' s ships , and the Bums charged were only for the expenses of the 3 teep of the bishops during their journeys . He could only say that with regard to the whole of these charges the greatest care had been taken to economise them , and the greatest proof of that would be found in the fact , that they were 30 , OUO / . less than they were a few years ago . JNfr . A . Fellatx moved as an amendment that the sum be reduced by 37 U . Mr . MuKKpcoH seconded the amendment . Sir . Williams said it " was- useless to seek to reduce the vote by so 'small- a . sum , because Government took a margin of something like 30 , 000 / . more than they required . 2
be done by producing , as the Emigration Commissionersrecommended , a . marked improvement in the social and industrial condition of the population . They had sought toimprove the condition of the agricultural Classes -by-laws , to'improve the relations of landlord and teuaat , but hitherto without effect ; and from what had fallen from the present government there seemed to be no hope of anything being effected in this way . It was therefore natural to look to some other course , especially as the suggestions he had tooffer would raise no hostile feelings in Ireland , but would benefit all classes alike , and would benefit England and Ireland alike . His proposition was that- the Legislatureshould afford direct facilities for the establishment , of manufactures . He based this proposal on no theory of his own , but on what had been done in . a neighbouring kingdom . All
Ur . / Mag iixre said the course of the lion , member for Lambeth was most unsatisfactory . He regarded that hon . member not as a Hume , but as the Smollett of reform . { Laughter . ' ) He criticised various small items , but proposed nothing ; and , so far as the people "were concerned , he might as well have never been in tlie House . { Oh , ok , and laughter . ) ' As the hon . gentleman was so fond of small items , he wondered that he had not taken exception to the lol . for lemonade , &c , to the Governor of New Zealand , and 1-8 / . for the support of a negro-boy . ( jLowd laughter . ) The fact was , that the hon . gentleman made nothing but little amiable complaints , whicb were answered from the Treasury bench with equal amiability ; and so the matter ended . And yet , when any Irish question came forward , the lion , gentleman manifested the greatest impatience , in order that he might the sooner disport himself in these little matters . CLaw / liter . ' )
he asked was that- the Legislature would enable the people of Ireland to do out of their own funds what had been done with the greatest success in Belgium . ¦ He anticipated considerable opposition , from the novelty of his proposal . Thegreat objection would 'be , that for the state to interfere in , the establishment of manufactures would be contrary to the principles of free trade . This he denied . He took a great distinction between those laws and rules which were intended to protect an existing trade and those which might be necessary for the establishment of such a trade , where none such had previously existed . His proposal was , not for assistance from the state , but from some local machinery , where there was a disposition on . tho part of the local authorities to lend their assistance . The Government would not object to this ; for in the present session large sums had been voted for
iMr . \ V . Williams assured the lion , gentleman that any opinions which lie might entertain of his parliamentary conduct , he regarded with the utmost . indifference . ( Laughter . ) The hon . gentleman ( Mr- Mnguire ) had chosen for his mission to " oppose the Government , " as he called it . { Lunghtcr . ) He ( Mr . Williams ) too , had opposed the Government , and many times divided against them , and although he had never yet succeeded in carrying a division —( loud laughter )—he had pointed out many excessive items in the expenditure ^ and in a number of cases he had been successful in securing their correction . If the hon . gentleman ( Mr . Pellatt ) divided , he would add to the items to be reduced , tho 1200 / . for the clergy of Scotland , and tho sum allowed to the Cathedral commission . { Oh , and laughter . ) Mr . IIaufikld defended Air . Williams , and protested ngainst sums being voted from the imperial purse for tho sustontaliou of colonial bishops , who ought to be paid by the colonies themselves .
normal schools , not simply for the purposes of education , hut to train persons for employment in manufactories , and in establishments where the arts of design were in reqnest-Of late years nil governments had recognised tho necessity of doing this , in order that we might bo able to compote with foreign manufacturers . Thus , the principle had been sanctioned that it was desirable to do something to foster and encourage the establishment of manufactures . This was tho whole question ; and no objection could be taken to his proposal on the ground that it sinned against principle . The honourable member went into a number of statistics to show the success of the experiment in Belgium , which , he said , he took from the official returns published by the Belgian Government , and which , ho contended , proved beyond nil doubt that the experiment was attended by a complete social revolution that conferred lasting benefits upon the people , and gave an immense stimulus to private enterprise . Those
U he House was then clonrod for a division , but did not divide , as the motion was withdrawn , and tho vote agreed to . On the motion that a sum of l » 99 itf . be voted for the militia in Great Britain and Ireland , Mr . Williams objected to tho vole , and complained of the immense amount of military force which the country was now callod upon to keep up , when really tho war in whlejli they were ongugod was not of a nature to require it . Tho war was not biinilar to tho great Frenoh war in which tho country had been engaged , and ho therefore thought that tho country ought not to bo burdened with such an enormous military force as 124 , 710 men it had now to pay .
statistics were well worth tho attention of tho House , because- they were the results of an experiment which had been in operation in a neighbouring country similarly situated during tho last few yeara . The experiment had raised the people from a 3 Uite or pauperism to a state of JiQluonco . And what did tho House suppose had been tho expense to Belgium of trying this glorious experiment ? Why only ! 3 - , OOO / ., and this was tho sort of experiment ho was asking tho Houso to give aomo of tlio localities of Ireland the power of testing ; lie had no intention of submitting any resolution upon the subject to tho Houso ; all that ho wanted to do was to call attention to it , and having done that , ho hopod it would not be lost eight of , The experiment ho wished to have triod might bo tested under tho superintendence , of a Government official , and ho commended it moat seriously to tho attention of tho noblo lord tho President of the ( Jounuil , who had evinced a strong and wiucero disposition to promote tho interest of Ireland .
Colonel biuTitouru was not surprised at tho objections of tho hon . member for Lambuth , who knew nothing of soldiering , and who , in liis ( Colonel Sibthorpe ' s ) opinion , would not adorn oven " tho awkward squad" Ho ( Colonel Sibthorpoj could not but express his thanks to tho noblo lord ( Lord J . Kussoll ) and to tho Government generally for tlie courao they had taken in relation to tho war in which tho country was now engaged ; un < l while ho thanked Mr . Williuim for norvlcca rendorod by him in exposing jobs , ho umst disugroo with him in this imittor , nnd any Hint ho ( Colonel Sibthorpo ) would support tho Govornnieat , to tho last in tho war in which tliu country was now cnengeil .
Lord J . KusfucLL treated tho proposition in a better spirit than usual . Ho should not liko to otter any opinion mh to what had been done in Belgium until ho was better inforjyod , upon tho details of tho oxiiorimont ; but h « could ptfilMit once that there was a . wido diU ' croneo between a , « Mwto aflbrding instruction in the aits of nianufactuivs , aflfl ' in undec ^ taking a manufacturing enterprise with a view ? oype . oinuitrjt profit . Instruction in manutacturoa had and co « W bo ^^ under tho Hupcrintcudonco of Government , kutunoto ^ atfjfc vilest distinction botwoon giving that iii « lruot » iii ^ r * o * jgftll ^ of promoting manufacturing « rl , nnd uii ( l ( U'tal « iigi «^ ith . ( W viow to a roinunorutivo im . / it . The- purauit of'pftfli ^ hQuH ; bo loft I'ntiroly to Individual entorpribo , and uhodlfrrroVo ^ ijf posaiblo bo thwirtod by Mtuto competition . Thd xwjUmfi ^ l , whioh tin * honoumblo mombor had quoted in supporKjjpib&i pronoHltion , if tlioy woro worth anything , did not no muW prove tho ospediouoy of a tituto entering upon commercial oiiterprlso n » tho great advantage which tho recognition wS
Colonel Dunni < j wiahod to know from tho right lion , gentleman tho Secretary at War whothor any change had boon doterminod upon in tho olothing of tho urmy . Mr . Siunicy HiticUKUT oiiid that , tho supply of clothing wua ahviiyn a your in advance , nnd until 1 . & 60 thoro would not probably be any elmngo , and what , tho change might be ho could not May . He liad had HpuoimoiiB of doth aubmittcd to him , and ho might utiito tlma muoh to tlio hon . and ipilUut niumbur , that tho clothing of tho army would in lutijro bo of u imriorior quality to what it had boun . Tlio vote was then agreed to . On tho motion Hint u Minn of 10 , 000 / . bo grunted for retired full pay to olllcera for lon ^ nnd moritoriimn uervices . bojiio discussion ensued , in which Colonel LwusuY » uu
Untitled Article
August 5 , 1854 . ] THE LEADER . 723
-
-
Citation
-
Leader (1850-1860), Aug. 5, 1854, page 723, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse2.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/vm2-ncseproduct2050/page/3/
-