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o THE NORTHERN STAR. ' " t -^ A pbil 22,...
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Printed Vy DOUGAI* M'GO"WA!s of 1G, Great Wsnflmili-
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sweet, tiii.ymaru.et, in ui«j-vity , .f ...
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
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Crown And Government Security Bill. Spee...
Mr E . _EMtoe , Jan ., felt _bonsd to say . _<**«'&**& the evidence of tt . . omni . tee _wWok _united tke tat . aamben . that ic presented a parallel case to _** tctYa * . oath ; { Hear , hear . ) In both , the ireemen werethe body _*» _ved toh . ve been corrupt ; and . there was no more evidence in the Yarmouth case to justify its disfranchisement than ia the Derby . Sir J Hunts * Mi * that there wa * an essential _necessity " for punishing all such constituencies as should ba proved guilty of corruption , and no longer to act upon the principle of punishing merely the member * _elected by these corrupt bodies . He called npon the government to remedy a malady , which , as much as any other of the body politic , required to be remedied ,
Mr Hcue urged that _anequBlmea & ure of justice should be dealt ont to all corrupt _constituencies on some uniform principle , and that while _eae corrupt borough wag disfranchised , another should not be permitted to elect a new _caaba ? _, aa _SewSley waa allow eS to eo . So _contended that Derby ought to be pUced in the same category with Horsham . It was _peculiarly the duty of government to gee to this matter , at a time when so much attenion was being paid to the question of the _representation of the country . ( Hear , hear . ) He moved that the writs for Derby be _sutpendod until a full inquiry had been made into the whole ml ject . ( Hear , bear . ) Tho Earl of Lincoln supported the amendment , and expressed his bops that the noble lord at the head of the government wonld _lote bo time _inioquiring into the matter .
Hr CmtnEBs _, as chairman of the Derby election cemmittee , begged to say that the cemmittee had not recommended the disfranchisement of the borough , because , Blthongh bribery bad been , ae doubt , proved against nine voters , and there was b , strong case _» f suspicion in reference to about 200 out of the 400 freemen , yet , as the constituency numbered 2 , 000 , 1 , 590 of these being £ 18 _homeholderg , against whom tbere appeared no taint , it had been _coasidered unjust to the 1 , 700 or 1 , 800 voters to disfranchise them for the fault of the minority . He should , oil the same principle , oppose the suspension of the writs .
Lord 3 . _RnaBELf . observed that the committee appeared to hare decided that there were certain cases in vrhieh bribery bad been proved against the freemen of Derby , and that there were other cases far more same . _rous iu which bribery more extensive bad not been proved , though it was strongly suspected . Ha considered that so much had been stated in the report of the _eommi'tee as to render it fit tin ? that there should be a further inquirj into the corruption of the freemen of thai borough . Ha _therefore agreed with Mr Hume that the issue of this writ ought to be stayed . Ha could not take up tho inquiry on the part of the government , in _eonsequencs of the multiplicity of business l » y which he was overwhelmed at present ; bat he hoped that _Lsrd Lincoln , or soma other member not burdened with the cares of ( fuze , would take charge ot i t .
Sir R . Peel expressed * great satisfaction at the speech which Lord John Russell had just made - for on reading the evidence taken ia this case , he had come to the conclusion that it was quite impossible to refuse farther inquiry into the bribery which had prevailed among the freemen ef Derby at the last election . He _O'Cossofc _expressed his _intention to vote for the Issue of the writ , thinking that the whole constituency _Eheuld not be punished for the fault of nine freemen . After a lengthened discussion the house divided on Hr Hume ' s amsndment _, _whtn tha numbers were—Ayes 199 Kobe 48 Majority in ita favour ' 156 So thB writ was not allowed to isstiB . _PsoKCTin Picpze Piocissioh . —Sir 3 . Y . Bdllm _begged to ask ths right hon . baronet opposite whether he eould give tha house any information on the subject of 5 projected procession of 100 , 000 pauperis to ba _heafisd by Mr C _Coshrane on Easter Monday !
Sir G . Geei sail that _tiree weebs ago be had _received a letter from Hr C . Cochrane , statins ; that be bad a petition and address to present to her Majesty , and tbat it was hit intention to come down to the Homc-offies , _accompanied by a body of petitioners , on the 24 th of April , in order to place it in his hands . He had , _thereupon , informed Hr C . Cochrane that any address of the nature referred to might be presented to bim in tha usual course by himself , attended by a few persons , but that no such _document accompanied by a large _number of persons would be received . He had also informed Hr C . Cichrase tbat it weuld not be convenient for him to _recelveany _deputation er address during the Easter week He ( Sir & Grey ) had received Utters from _varioas
poorlaw-unions , stating thatletters addressed by Mr C . Cochrane to persons of tbe _nsnae of Jones , and others ofthe name of Smi b , had been received at the _workhouseB , In the hope thatthey would find some ene of these names in the workhouses . Those letters stated that the petition of the poor was to be presented by the writer * n Stater Monday , accompanied by 160 , 600 paupers , an ! ha hoped those who received them would make every endeavour to accompany the procession . Since tbat , he had received n » information that it was Hr Cochrane _'» intention to resort to any such proceeding as the deputation he had referred to , and he ( Sir G . Grey ) thought tiiafc thai _indW-idaal might fee _safrl y left in the hands ef the police commissioners . ( A laogb . )
Bastes Recess . —Lord J . Kdssell , in accordance with a promise give n by him to the noble lord the member for Falkirk on a former evening , would state the course he would propose to the home to follow with respect to the adjournment during the Easter recess , subject of course to the progress of the Crown and Government Security Bill , He proposed to move that the nou _& should adjourn on Wednesday next nnUl the Sa . tarday- following , and from that day until Monday tha 1 st of Hay . Ceows asd _Sovsbhhjkt _Sicubitt Bill . —The report of this bill was brought up . Mr _Agli-ihbz moved a clause , rendering misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment , with tbe view to leaving out the words ' by open and _advissd speaking , ' whieh was negatived by a minority of 67 , the numbers 117 to 50 ,
_Aclauseprapossiiby _SirW . _Ciat , alio in reference to the omission oftbe objectionable words , and the _substi . tation of a proviso , enacting that when a second offence was _charged , the offending party should not be admitted to bail , was negatived by S 3 to 89 , majority H . The Attobxey _GutEBAt submitted a proviso that informations must be sworn within six dayB after the _cora-Stlssion ofthe effence _, and the magistrate ' s warrant issue vrithln ten cays from that period , which , after a debate , _« M carried by Iii to SS—majority 112 , Hr Bsight moved as an amendment that the powers of fee stet should not be invoked , except at the instance of the Law Officers ofthe Crown , which was rejected by a _ssjorityof 121 , the numbers were 49 to 179 . Cajtain H »* sis moved , bnt snbsegnin _' ly withdrew , a Disuse propoiing to empower the _government to disarm tho people of Ireland of pikes nnd similar hostile _wtnpoBi _* . "Thereport was then received , and the bill was ordered to ba read a third time on Tuesday , the debate to be taken en that question at 12 o ' clock .
In the course of the debate , Lord Johk _Rosbbll oongratnlated Mr Hume on his ftr 3 t exhibition as an ironical ¦ and sarcastic speaker , aad thanked the gentlemen on the Conservative beaches forthe disinterested support which they had reeeatlj afforded ministers , and of which minis _, ten felt jostly proud . Hr _Biibielt , following np the attack said , he was not -surprised at tha ironical tone of the hen . member for _Hontroie at the present moment , when he remembered the peculiar and novel _oogitwn in " whieh the hon . member hadbeen placed within the last few dajt , The hon , ¦ z nember wss at the head of a numerous but not vcrj well _, disciplined army , and he could not complain ef not _bavinc sought a fair field on which to exercise than . ( ' Hear , ' and a laugh . ) The hon . member was now really la his political youth , and fall of the vigour ef _hiB new birth . He was abont to eater into a more active career , and , With a considerable Interval of practice with his new forces , he might meet with success . ( 'Hear , ' and _Isughter . )
_Copfse ahd Lbab Duties . —The _Chavcbllob of tbe Exche < _jueb then moved that the house resolve itself into committee of tha whole house on ths Copper asd Lead Duties . Sir C _Lsiras * moved , ss as amendment , that & salect committee be appointed to inquire into the effect of the _Ctisling duties on the importation and production of copper ore . _ThahousedivWe . _'—for theoriginalrflotlon , 102 ; against it , 85 : majority , 67 . _Thshiuse then went iato committee , and the _CaiN--cz & wBof tbe TixcHEo . _uEs propounded resolutions for the reduction of ihe duties . Hr Oladstoke said he should not interpose hia amendment for the total repeal of the duties until the house went into committee en the bill ; in the meantime he wished te ba informed whether the government would be prepared to take a . similar coarse to that now proposed with reference to tin .
The Chihcellok of the Ev . chiq . cee " . , not having re . ceived any representations on the subject of tin , did not see any immediate necessity for _sttch a redaction . lord G , Bestisck moved that the Chairman report progress , when the committee divided—ayes , 18 ; noes , 77 ; when tha _rasoiations were agreed to , and the house resumed . On the motion of Bir W . S 6 _Utavu . T . E , the select committee on the Landlord asd Tenant ( Ireland ) Bill was nominated , and the house adjourned at one o ' clock , TUESDAY , Arsit , 18 . HOUSE OF LORDS . — State of Dpblis . —Lord _Beaehost askedVbat Bttps _ha-i been taken by the government with respect te tho training of armed men fa Dublin ? . .
The _Harquia of Laksdowkb replied that he had said on Monday , ia answer to a similar question , that it there was _sny _training going on it wes not ef so decisive and dietmeti * _character as to authorise tbe Lord Lieutenant to nut the _actfllnded io last night m force ; nevertheless he felt _sa ' - _itSed that if anything of the sort could be clearly _provei , tho L rd Ll . uteaant would immediately _vuz that act in force ; an 1 he was now able to state that _proceedings in the nature of training to tbe nse of arms h _^ d beea _discovered s day or two sines , to be in _projresD in Dub in , and before the _evening all the person * _enpgelin It hat beea arrested —( hear , hear}—and any o _' _-uer society _assembled for the same _purposiwould be imra ?' ' lately proceeded against in the same _wsy . ( Hear , hear . ) It might be well to edd that under the pTo-tV : ng { t _^ DaMn Police Ac * , firing ' t _vtlK a teU _was illegal , and liable to punishment . tttear , ) _B'H
v _,- _^ . _^?« v * BEloiu , s - --0 n _^ _s motion of Lord _^ _StX _^»~ = **» _' Pa _^ d
Crown And Government Security Bill. Spee...
On tne motion that t & e _report be brought ap _. Lord BsocaBjsc proposed the following amendment : That nothing in this act contained 6 hall be of force , by way of _retrospective or _ez _| post /< Kfo law , to affect any vested Interest , or decide » ny question bow pending before any court , or in either hense of parliament . ' Their lordships divided—Fur the amendment ... SI Against it ... ... ... 16 H 8 ierlty > —5
Lora Mokteagk complained that the noble and learned lord had divided the house , after having stated that it was nor , his intention to do so , in consequence of which several peers had left the house . If _t-urprlsea of this sort were tobe practised on her Mi > je _» ty _'» government , all of whom voted for the noble and learned lord ' s amendment , he should like to know how the public service was to ba carried on t In neither hoase of parliameat had he ever known an instance of any such pro catding . He would give notice that on to-morrow hs would move the house to reverse the decision to whieh it had just come .
Lord Bbooghah said , be _aever saw an instance of a more complete want of reeollectlon of what passed within the last hoar than his noble friend exhibited in bis proper person at this moment . ( Laughter . ) The noble and learned lord then explained that , in the _flrBt instance , he promised he would take the division on tho third reading , but io consequence of a suggestion made by his noble friend opposite , ha stated that he woald move bis amendmen-. Whether the amendment was taken in committee or upon the report was a matter of absolute Indifference . His noble friend had said that ha ( Lord Brougham ) had only whispered hia Intention of proposing the amendment , bnt it was s whisper made acrogs the table whilst he sat in his place . The Lo » D _Chaucehob — , Aud nobody made the slightest _ot-jection . Lord _Bbooqhaic—Ceftainly not . Nothing could be more unfounded than the _assertien tbat in assisting on a division he had taken their lordships by surprise .
The Earl of _Haiiiisboby said he had been in the habit of collecting voUb and oht & iaing _theaUeadsnoa of the noble lords who generally acted with tbat , the Op . _position , aide of the House , and he was asked on this occasion to solicit the presence of such noble lords aa agreed to this bill . He did so in tbe usual way , and then inquired of his noble and learned friend { Lord Brouihara ) whether ha waa going to divide the House on his amendment His reply was , ' I have no intention oftbe sort ; I only want to record my opinion in _opposition to this Bill . ' ( Hear , hear , hear . ) He ( Lord _Halmcsbory ) then toll his noble friends on that side of tha house that there would be no division , and that they might resume any occupation that woald be more agreeable to them than the present , without any danger of having the amendment carried . His impression wae , that the noble aad learned lord had Hot acted as fairl y an he was generally & ccascomed to do . ( Hear , hear . )
Lord _Bbousbah ( with great warmth)—Jly lords , I have en ' y to giro my _raost complete , _etringent , and psremp . ory denial to that , ( ' Order , ' _acd laughter . ) I _willnotbecslUd to order for stating a fact . I never heard the noble earl say a word of the kind , I heard him ask the question whetV er I meant ts debate tonight , and I waB told that the debate was to ba taken on the third _reaiing . No noble lord cculd say tbat I said I weuld not divide . If I did cot dmde , any noblo lordmy noble and learned friend opposite ( Lord Campbell ) might do so . _Ntither the _neblc lord nor any human being conld say that I promised _nt . t to divide . Tbe question was about debating , and I repeatedl y said that I did not intend to do so . The Marquis of Laksdowhe was understood to say , that no effort was made on tbe part of the government to secure tbe _attendance of noble lords favourable to the Bill .
Tbe Earl of _Malhesbury said ha had been frequently asked for information with respect to such matters , and therefore it was _natoral that Bome noble lords on the other side ofthe hoase should inquire of him . He bad certainly led eome of them to believe tbat there would be no division in consequence of what the soble and learaed lord bad told him . Lord - _Bbotjohak—I ask the noble lord whether I said , ' I do not mean to divide !' The Earl of _Malhesbdsv—I asked , ' Will yoa divide !' Lord _Barman-Ast—Did I say , ' I won ' t divide i' The noble earl won ' t screw himself up to say so . Tbe Earl of _Milhese-jut . —The noble and learned lord said , 'I have no Intention to do so . ' ( Hear , hear . ) Lord B & oughak—Meaning thereby that I had no intention of going into a debate on the clause . ( Liughter . )
Earl _Gasv hers eame to the rescue and the subjeet dropped . The Crown and Government Security Bill was then brought op froo the _Cemmons , and read a flmltimo . Their lordships then adjourned to sit on Wednesday for the second readlag of tbe Gagging Bill . HOUSE OF COMMONS . —The Speaker took the chair at twelve o ' clock in order to hurry oa the Gagging Bill . _CSAMI & T _Meeiiscos _Blaceheatb . — Hr 2 . _O'Coknob , as an act of justice to the Tihes newspaper , begged
permission ofthe hoase te read a note from Lieutenant-General Kapler , who had asserted positively on a former occasion , with reference to a report of certain speeches alleged to have been delivered upon _Blaclcncath , that no such meeting had Seen held . General Kapier now stated that he had made inquiry , aud found that a small assemblage had taken place on Blackheath for the purpose of adopting a petition , and tbat thespreeheB reported in the Tikeb had no doubt been made at that as _gpHibly . The gallant general accordingly begged leave to correct the error Into which he had fallen .
_Adxofbnment of the _Honsr . —Lard J . Rcsszll gave notice that at tbe meeting ofthe honse to-morrow he should move that the hoase adjourn at its rising antil Saturday next . The noble Loed said he should likewise move tbat after Easter , orders of the day should _takeprecedonce of netices of motion on Thursdays . Cbowh and _Govebhhent _Sscubitt Bin . —On tho order of the day for the third reading of this bill , Mr Huhs expressed great doubts whether the opponents of this bill had carried tbeir opposition ta the full
extent that the novel and extraordinary character of the measure required . He warned the noble lord that any attempt to carry into effect the objectionable _clauies of the bill , would be followed by consequences much more serious , than he anticipated . The government had passed two coercion bills during the present session and an income-tax bill , but not a single remedial measure , He feared tbat , seeing theBB things , the people would be driven to other measures to obtain reforms . He moved that the bill be read a third time that day six months .
Sir D . L . Evaks objected to certain portions of the bill , bnt he eould not concur in an indiscriminate censure of the whole bill . Mr O'Connor said : That he would now attack the civil and military position of the hon . and gallant officer , ( Sir De Lacy Evans ) , who had just sat down . That hon . gentleman , had made a great _bl'inder , and a valuable admission of his authority would be relied upon hy a jury ; or if a prisoner under this act could make such a sweeping defence as the bon . and gallant officer had made , in refutation of the charge brought against him by the hon . member for finsbury , tbeu he ( Mr O'Connor ) would apprehend no danger from . the present bill . That gallant officer admitted having used the words
attributed to bun , but _beUeves he didn t use them because lhey were not reported in the Timet newspaper . ( Hear , hear , and laughter . ) This would be a defence that every Chartist may truly set up , but perhaps , the deficiency would be supplied hy a police spy or an informer . ( Hear , hear . ) But he contended that the confession of the gallant officer himself , would subject him to an indictment under this bill , had it been in existence in the palmy days of Reform , aBd then be would have the honour of transportation in company with the noble lord and his colleagues . ( Hear , hear . ) Why , what bad tbe gallant officer told ns ? That his invasion of London with 100 , 000 , men was not to intimidate the then government , bnt to strengthen its hands ; thus proving
that men alone constituted bis notion of crime , because be admitted tbat he was ready to march upon London—a very military phrase , —if the bill was rejected . ( Hear , bear . ) And then if words advisedly spoken are to be proof of the intent , the gallant officer and his confederates would be guilty of the burning of Bristol , Newcastle , and Nottingham Castle ; and as parlieeps criminis would bave merited punishment equally with those whose crime was the overt act , while the gallant officer ' s words were the intent . ( Hear , hear . ) Now , no such results from open and advised speaking had taken place on Monday last , while the transactions of that day , that did not occur , we made the pretext for this unconstitutional _measures—this violation of tbe Bill of
Rights—this infraction of the liberties of freemen . ( Hear , hear . ) Tt was his boast to be able to tell the working classes that the very existence of a ministry was prima facie proof of its popularity ; because the power of speech and combination , if properly used , armed the masses with the means of hurling any obnoxious ministry from power . ( Hear , hear . ) Thus , he bad been enabled boastfully to tell them that theirs was a constitution worth living for and worth dying for ; but when that constitution was violated ia its most cherished principle , by the very men whose boast it was that it vras based upon the blood of their ancestors , bis mouth was gagged , and he dared not practice such a deception . ( Hear , hear . ) He had asked the question several times , but bad received no answer ; he had asked fhe meaning of
' OPEN AND ADVISED SPEAKING , ' but not a member in that house bad ventured an answer . ( Hear , bear . ) He bad stated another fact in answer to the presumed clemency of ministers ; namely , that the bill was a boon , as it was a relaxation of the rigid law of treason ; but he reminded the hous e that the law of treason in tbat form , in which it was susceptible cf proof , was left _uHtouched _, and remained precisely as was before , while the boasted boon was
Crown And Government Security Bill. Spee...
* his t that the proposed relaxation applied to _srimes which did not happen once in a century , while the increased vigour was applicable to crimes ¦ which may happen every day in the year . ( Hear , hear , and loud cheers . ) Well , then , where was the boon ? Where was the clemency ? Where was the relaxation ? ( Hear , hear . ) When they were passing tbe Irish Coercion Bill , he told them that its effects would be to terrify the injured from appealing for redress to the law , lest coercion may be the answer to the rebel offender , and thus the really injured were deprived of the law's protection . ( Hear , hear . ) He applied the same rule to tbis
law , thus—that dread of trenching upon this inexplicable enactment , would close themouths of those who had real grievances to complain of , but whieh tbey would smother in pent-up anger , least their open and ' advised proclamation should subject them to the ignominious fate of felons . ( Hear , bear , and cheers . ) Would there be safety , then , or weakness , in this treasonable conspiracy against tbe prerogative of tbe Crown and the constitutional rights of the people ? ( Hear , hear . ) Could the noble lord draw no inference between the desertion of old allies and friends and the rabid howl of his incessant and bitter enemies ?
( Hear , hear . ) Did be imagine , or expect that , while he was centralising all power within that house , even to the administration of a pauper law , to check , impede , or stop tbe tributary streams of knowledge which were hourly running into the reservoir of mind , and which , ere long , would break down his flimsy barriers , burst tbe floodgates of ignorance , aad overwhelm his centralised corruption ? ( Hear , hear , and cheers . ) He shewed them before , that the ordinary law was sufficient to repress what is called sedition in 1839 , 1840 , 1841 , and 1842 , and while panic was the justification urged in favour of' this measure , his answer was , that not a political offence had been committed for
the last six years ; and , perhaps , tbis awful stillness had alarmed authority more than sudden outbreaks . But Ireland was to be tbeir battle ground . In 1833 tbey asked for coercion—that remedial measures may be administered in time of peace—they had since had the stillness ofthe grave , with passive obedience and non-resistance even to culpable slavery , and behold , Ireland's long-withheld remedial measureto make complaint of bitter wrong and deep oppression , a transportable felony ! ( Hear , hear ,. and cheers . ) Aud , then , the state of France was urged , but be ( Mr O'Connor ) looked for no foreign aid , nor could he be over censorious on bitter denunciation of suffering and / amine , backed by coercion ,
leaning to burning words . ( Hear , hear . ) There were two points in his speech of last night , for which tbe honourable member for Cockermoutb , whom he was sorry to miss from his place , had taken him to task for rather uhcourteously ; those points were , the difficulty imposed upon the accused of rebutting words after a lapse of sixteen days , professed to be accurately reported by a spy or informer—while tbey were fresh upon his memory ; the other was the antagonism whicli the Attorney General ' s definition would cause between the law officers of the Crown and the committing justice . ( Hear , hear . ) Now the hon . member for Cockermonth
censured bim ( Mr O Connor ) tor his furious and inflammatory speech , while , curious to say _. he used every one of his arguments , but in milder ' tones . ( Hear , hear . ) He would give tbem an instance of the manner in which government prosecutions were got up . At tbe Lancaster trials , in 1843 , while the tight hon . baronet , Sir James Graham , wa ; upon the bench , he ( Mr O'Connor ) in the cross-examination of one of the principal witnesses , extracted the fact , tbat the said witness , together with his whole family , had been liberated fiom the workhouse for the express purpose of inciting the people to disor . der . There was a policeman also examined , who admitted tbat he had transcribed the words sworn
to many months after tbey were spoken , from the memory of one wbo could not write . Well , iben , was not that power enough , without the infliction of this treasonable act ? ( Hear , hear . ) The house had the admission that the progress of Chartism justified the _minister in his appeal ; his answer to that was , that those who toil for a miserable subsistence , or withered in the ' workhouse , were possessed with the conviction that labour is the source of all wealth , and that a cultivation of the national resources is the primary duty of all governments , and they will not longer submit to see tbe land of tbeir country a barren wilderness and a desert , while they are ready to make it profitable by the application of their labour . ( Hear , hear . ) Tbey
will not starve , and see their families starve , while idlers fare sumptuously on their toil ; neither will your treason bill convince the labourer that labour can be justly represented by noble lords , baronets , landlords , and 'squires , with obsolete privileges to uphold ; by admirals , captains , and lieutenants in the Navy , with selfish interests to serve ; by generals , colonels , majors , captains , and lieutenants in the Army ; by bankers , merchants , traders , and speculators ; by over 100 railway contractors , chairmen , and directors ; by barristers and attorneys ; by placemen , pensioners , and idle paupers . ( Hear , hear , and cheers . ) No ! such a representation was not in accordance with the active genius of the present age . Let the noble lord bear this fact in mind , that while all other countries which have but recentlv thrown
off the yoke of despotism , are granting every point in the Charter , he is trying to arre 3 t its progress by making its open and advised advocacy a transportable felony . ( Hear , hear . ) How now could they boast of tbeir people ' s loyalty to the throne , if expressions of contempt for the ministers were to be construed as treason against the Crown , The ministers were the real traitors . ( Hear , bear . ) The landlords sitting on the opposition benches , vainly hoped to strengthen their position by acquiescence in this barbarous act , but he cautioned thera by what was nearest to their hearts , that , ten days more rain , and their sun would set . The wheat upon the cold grounds and clay lands was already perishing , and he should like to
know whether bankrupt merchants , traders , _^ shopkeepers , and an unemployed people , would be able to spare thirty-three millions next year , to 6 upply the place of what might be more profitably produced at home . ( Hear , hear . ) He had gone with his party , and he would still go with his party , through evil report and good report , until he saw a fair day ' s wage for a fair day ' s work , and political power to secure and defend it . As the proceedings of Monday had been repeated to surfeit , he again would ask , what obloquy , what taunt and condemnation , he
would not have deserved , if he had skulked like a coward and abandoned bis party in the hour of danger . And he repeated there , as he had done elsewhere , that , after thesilly and boastful threats by some poor gentlemen—who were too proud to work , and too uoor to live without labour , and whose order had aforetime _jeopardisedChartisra—that tbe government was justified in taking precautionary measures for protection of the peace . ( Hear . ) Ay said Mr O'Connor , I understand that cheer , but had it not been for the unconstitutional defiance of the
government , there wonld have been no threat to create alarm , and tbe procession would have passed off as the meeting did . ( Hear , hear . ) But he would refer to precedent , of which the house was so fond . " The hon . member for Li & keard ( Mr C . Buller ) stated tbat Ireland was in a state of incipient revolution , which nothing but the authority of Mr O'Connell could repress , and that discontent would break out into open rebellion upon his demise . Well , then , with this warning , was not the government culpable in allowing the cause of discontent to remain , instead of proposing remedies to avert the danger . ( Hear , hear But
. ) as tbe danger of the passing time had been cited , he would call the attention of the house to words which had been used by t _!* at deceased gentleman , in tbe presence of bim ( Mr O'Connor ) . He said , ' Let me have a petition from five hundred thousand FIGHTING MEN , and let the hon . house understand that they are determined to fight , but that they humbly pray for redress . ' ( Hear , hear . ) But bave not the Whigs ever been the patrons , the abettors and promoters of treason ? And are not tbeir benches now filled , ay , and tbeir offices too , with traitors of the first water ? ( Hear , hear . ) He then drew ihe attention of the house to this fact .
and it was strictly in point to tbe present state of Irelaud—in 1839 . Mr Robert Kelly Douglas , the proprietor or manager of the Birmingham Journal , travelled through Scotland with a sample of rifl _*** , and recommended _thepto-ileta establish rifle _clubu . ( llear , bear . ) Mr George Edmonds , a solicitor of the same * o * n , used language equally violent , ' but instead of _transijcrtins ; them , you gave _Bimninghnni a corporation , and pensioned your co-felons _njinn the _industrious poor . ( Hear , hear . ) What said Mr A
ttwood , in 1839 , in his _(< Vr O'Cocnor ' . s ) presence , and before 200000 men ; he said , 'L _^ t them refuse the Cbarter , and with the stamp oi my loot , a Ciitl'ior * _Euglieh hearts will _respond ; and should I stamp aj ? ain , 2 , 000 . 000 _Euglish arms would be raueil lor its _enldrccraenl _* . ( Hear , boar . ) Well-, wb _* u more _violent language . than ho had quoted bad baen UEed either in England or in Ireland ? Once gag the people , once put fetters upon the free expression- of public opinion , aud there would bo un end to the boast ofthe British constitution ,, That
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would be ths effect of this hill , for it would prevent men from speaking , leat they should violate its provisions . For himself , he should leave off speaking extemporaneously , he would write hia speeches , and read them , and then hand them over with hi _. i compliments to the Attorney-General , to make what use he _plaesed ef ; and ho would advise all Chartist orators to do the same , and he hoped some hon . member would move that thoy be printed in a blue book , which would he much more instructive to tbe house than many other hooka . ( Hear , hear , and laughter . ) He appealed to the noble lord—who , after all , be would rather see at the bead of tbe government than any Other roan , if he had the courage to carry out the principles that he had taught the people to contend for—not to sully his own fair fame , not to derogate
from the reputation of his ancestors aa lovers of freedom , by tbe authorship of a measure like this . The Reform Bill had been carried , but the people were now looking for its fruits , and he trusted the noble lord would Dot disappoint tbem _^ The hon , and learned member next declaimed against the prinoiple of centralisation , contending that what the people wanted , and were determined to have , was local nower . If he had given to this bill what was called a factious opposition , it was because he regarded with terror the precedent that would be established for hon . gentlemen » ow on tbe Opposition side of the house , it they should pass oyer to the Treasury benches . It was a _gaggi & g bill , and it would operate as a gagging bill hereafter upon the noble lord him * self , when he _should be in opposition . Befure he sat
dowD , be would tell the bon . and gallant member for W « _stminster ( SirDe Lacy Evans ) , an Irish anecdote , very much in point and strictly in _keeping with his repudiation of bis former _principles , or , rather , _Bpeeebes . There was a farmer ' s boy who _pot permission from his master to attend an Irish fair , for a frolic ; the master gave him _balf-acrowo , and lent him a horse and cart to enable him to treat bis mother to a day ' s amusement . _Whefc he changed his half-crown in a tent , and after he had spent ene shilling and sixpence , b < - discovered that the other shilling was a forgery . He went in _great dismay to tbo man who gave him the bad _ahil _^ ling , but the man denied the chart e . Thus baulked ofa portion of his fun , he left tbe fair lather early , but not before a row had commerced , and in passing
through which a' stray sto-ae , ' as it was called , hit his mother and killed her . Tbe polico came up , and upon questioning him he told them that ho know _tbo man who killed his mother , and he conducted the p' lice to the tent of the man who gave him the bad _shi'lin ? . The man , hearing tbe row , was _rrnningback hurriedly to his tent , which gave an air of eredit to the witness ' s story . He was apprehended and brought to trial , but fortunately for hiin Baron Fennefather was hi * _juJgc , and although the witness had completely puzzled counsel , Baron Pennefatber waa not satisfied with hie mode of _giving evidence . He asked tho witness—* Now , witnesa , upon yoi if oath , is that the man that killed your Eiother ? ' The witness looked at the prWoner and replied , 'Thennpon my oatbmy lordship , that ' s the man
, , tbat kilt my mother , sore enough . ' The Baron _wai not satisfied , and he said , ' Now , witness , attend _; _io me . Now , witness , upon your oath , did you see tbe prisoner at the bar throw the stone that killed your mother ? ' Th © witness answered , 'Then upon my oath , my lordship , I can't swear that that ' s the man that threw the stone that kilt my mother , but by the vartu of my o _*« th that ' s the man that gave me the bad shil _ing , | anyhow . ' ( Roars of laughter *) Now the moral of the tale i _* , th » t a jury will find , not that the prisoner ban _committed felony , but tbat he was the man who wants the Charter , anyhow . ( Great laughter . ) lie would continue his oppoaition to this lwl _^ _*& wd , _a . &\ t _* a _»* 6 * ft' « t 4 tW _iU « _Majeatj _'* 0 _* mm » v
tion bad ' now been regularly and constitutionally formed , of which the hon . member for Montrose was to be henceforth their leader , —( a lauf _- _fh . )—he said it not tauntingly ; but , whosoever might be the leader , it was to bo hoped that tho arty would ehow more of resolution and courage than they had last ninht , wben it had been his ( Mr O'Connor ' s ) purpose to impede the progress of the bill , and frustrate it , if _possible , by any means tha forms ofthe house would allow . It appeared to him that on that occasion tho party , although ranged under their new banner , had Bhown themselves rather faint . If they really in . tended lo succeed , tW _. musi commence their opposition bravely , and continue it _perseveringly .
Mr Headlam , Mr _Horsman , Mr Adderley , Mr Ker Scjmtr , & ad Mt * Mitchell spoke in _faveur ef the third _readlns-. Sir R . Feel supported the gorernment In carrrlrg this measure , nhich , in tbe peculiar stale ofthe times , he considered te bo necessary . The magnificent demonstration made by tha loyal and peaceable on the occa . sionof the late disturbance abundantly provod that the public opinion of thle country waa _decidedly averse to all great constitutional change ; but it was the duty of the government and of the legislature to do tbeir duty , and show to tbe loyal and _well-dlcposcd that they were determined to maintain tho fundamental institutions of the country . [ Sir Robert in tha coarse of bis speech made an attack npon the Chartists and Mr O'Connor . ] He oald : The question is , whether , uodcr the
oircninstances of the ease , with the avowals which have been made , and flth the influence of example In other conntrie ** , itis unreasonable and unjust tbat for a lheolted period , he _who , by malicious and advised speaking , shall try to induce the people of this kingdom to effect certain orjects by _levying war , Bhall be subject to tho ponalicB of felony . ( Hear , bevr . ) I confess I thick tt is not . ( Hear , hear . ) I see the language used ; I ob . aerre tbe congregation of immense masses liable to sedition , excited for no other purpose wbich I ean imagine than that of intimidation . Idtaw a distinction between the mere assemblage of tbose parties—for that does [ not come within this bill- 'and that offence to which this bill really refers ; but I look upon the assemblage itself as a symptom of the excitement of the times ; and altliough I rany not ba able to punish it by law—for it
may not be advisable' always te resort to law for the purpose of preventing such evils—yet I do think that the congregation of enormous masses under tbo pretext of presenting petitions , is a practice for which thoBe who are the leaders of euoh an organisation are subject , if not to legal , yet to the highest moral responsibility . I cannot _codceIvo for what purpose—certainly not fer the _purpose of _enoouragiog the deliberate consideration of tbat for which they wish—I oannot conceive for what purpose those enormous numbers , magnified by rtport far beyond their real amount—( hear , hear , and laughter)—have been brought together , except that of Intimidation . ( Hoar , hear . ) Sir , the honourable and loarned member for Nottingham ( Mr P . O ' Connor ) , whom I have always heard express _bimsolf herewith perfect gcod humour , has disclaimed all Intention of
intimidation , and has repudiated , I hope sincerely , the least 'desigD of creating confusion and disorder : But while I give tho honourable and learned gentleman full credit for sincerity , let me tell him tbat those wbo bring together 100 , 900 persons run a very great risk of _creating disorders . ( Hear , hear . ) Even the honourable and learned ge » _tlcman's p _rofessions of loyalty do not alto _, gether satisfy me . Efe _eoys , * I am no party to thia alleged lnt _> ntlon . I deprecate tbe conduct of tbose who adviBe arming . I am ouly for peaceable and loyal means , Ai for establishing a republic tbat I utterly disclaim- I have been for _yeara an attached and faithful servant of the Crown ; and us for democratic _hutltutlon &'—Ibeg _the'bonourable and learned _gentlemim'a pardon— ' as for republican institutions , — - ( laughter)—I diearow any desire for them , ' ( Hoar , hear . ) While the hon . and
learned gentleman , however disclaimed such _vlaws , it is evident that hie ardent loyalty bad not risen to a very high pitch in the thermometer of loyalty ; for I think he avowed that his lojalty ia of such a description , that _provided he can get democratic Institutions , it le matter of indifference to him whether or not Be z _< bab be the _tovereign of this country . ( Great laughter . ) This , 6 lr * , I do most cordially wish , that _wken the ben . and learned gentleman bas got th _« sovereign ol bis choice , he will hive confidence la tbo Crown . ( Roars of laughter . ) Thon . _'h the honourable and learned gentleman _saya thai he can maintain hia influence orer these _excited thousands and tons of _thounanda _, whom ho brings together by profession *) of loyalty to his sovereign , which , not voluntarily , but after the quotation of his own words , ho la led to avow ; it _appcura that his loyalty consists
in _Indlffcrenco as to . whether the Pepe , the Pretender , or the Devil be tho _aoverelga . ( Laughter aad cheers . ) From thia point the hon . baronet passed on to _Frauce and the ' _sooial dootrineB * now adveoated in that _county e t tbe _preaont lime . I mike no reference to the -political events that are passing In another cenatry . My _Hrra belief is , that the security of every existing government depends upon rigid abstinence from any interference with what Is _paearag in France . ( Cheers . ) 'We may maintain our own opinions oa tbat subject . Ihave mine . But I believe it to be _esientlai to the peace of tbe world and to tha stability of government that the experi ments now making iu _Franea shall have a fair trial without being embarrassed or disturbed by extrinsic Intervention . ( Loud cheers . ) But at tho same time with respect to social principle !* , I must pay this ,
that I hope tho _worKIng classes of tbia couutry will uot be deluded by tbe doctrines that are held upon that subject which intimately concerns thoir labour and the wages of labour . ( Loud cheers . ) If the doctrines that aro thero maintained be true , If there be indeed an antagonism benreen capital and labour—if jt be _truu that all mtn _, withoat r < _-fcr « nce to their different oap & bllities , different strength , aud different capacities , art * , to have some iron formula applied to them , and all to receive the same daily wages—if these things be true , iben all the experience and all tho lights ofthe _laot 150 years have existed in vain . ( _Chte r b . ) Let u * bum the _works of Turgot _, Say , and Adam Smith . Let us _ictaWish in triumph the doctrints of the Mississippi
Bcheme , and the doctrines of _thut Law who was . Bunposed to _IdvoIto France In misery aad _confUBion , ( Loud cheers . ) L : t ns wait forthe results of this _experiment . Lot us calmly contemplate whether it i . possible 'hat _cxecutdvo governments can ba gwat mat u _facturers—whetber it is possible for them t > torco capital to employ indviBlry—whether tbey cm \ oon _** _iaifti-. e the decrees of Providence , and r _« duc » nil men , without _reference to habits or strength to receive the _samo wages . ( Chetrs . ) For Gods sake _glvo that social principle _thd same fair trial as you are about to see given to tho political principle . ( Cheers , ) But I do _tanveetly trunt—1 have that confidence in the £ Qnd sense of the working classes of thia cauutry—thai thej- win belli ve that no
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false delusion of the compulsory aharingof profits , no enmity directed _tgstaet capital , no _distineUen of competition among Individuals , no _overpowering of individual enterprlte b y government _undertaklnga at the _pablic « _xpenoe , can possibly be for the benefit ef tbe working classes , or havo any other ultimate _rssult than Involving them in misery nnd ruin . ( _Loudandcontinuedoheerinf . ) Upon the politlcel principles I pronounce no opinion ; but it wonld be a ohamefal suppression of the truth , without arrogating to ourselves too muchof the liberty of speech , not to predict fatal consequences to those social experiment ** _, now in progress in ether countries . ( Lond oheers . ) Sir , I have been diverted for a short time from the
immediate objects of this bill . ( _Cheeri _. ) I believe , as I havo stated , that thera are political grounds for this temporary Increase to the authority of the government . I will not _attempt to force on the executive government any powers they do not require . AU that I bave now to deal with ia the question whether , for two years , he who _ineitan people to intimidate the legislature , not by words , but by declarations of war , shall be subject to tho _penalties of felony . I think the _olrcnmstances of the time justify thedemaud . I believa the people of this country will be euoouraged » o the continuance of those exertions up » n which , and not upon police , nor npon armies , the tranquillity , if not the _saf ty of this country depmds . ( Loud and continued _cbec-rinu . )
Mr Bbioht said bo hoped the house would not forget that the right hon . baronet , the member for Tamworth , had , In the speech just delivered , confined himself , when supporting the measure , to approving of it for a limited and temporary period . But , while the house remembered this , ho trusted they would also bear in miad tbat the responsible _advlsere of the Crown bad originally Intended that this provision of the bill sbouW he permanent and perpetual . He readily admitted that tbe bill in it » _pasaagc through that house bad been improved ; but he could by no means admit that tbat improvident waa in any degree owing to tbo gorernment , snd be , therefore , denied tbat tbey were entitled to any thanks for the _change which had beta tff cted . _^ The right hon . baronet , the member for Tamworth , in tha speech which tbe houso had heard , joined with those who had
condemned the practice of calling together great assemblages ofthe people , as leading to breaches of th * peace . Upon that there could ba scarcely a second opinion _. They all agreed to tbat ; but let the right hon . baronet look back a little to bis owb career , and he would see that that specie * of agitation was sometimes altogether unavoidable . Some nineteen or twenty years ago the rifht hon . baronet was opposed to the _measure known aa Horn an Catholic Emancipation ; nt that critical _memeat the Duke of Wolliogton told the world thut if concessions were not made to tbe Rsman Catholics nothing coal J avirt a civil war : hence it mi _/ bt fairly he Baid that the measure of _rel . ef mbeKomaB Catholics of Ireland was one which had been yl Idtd _ioI < ly under the influence of terror . So much for the concessions then made to tbe demands of the Irish people . ' What had
been the caje with regard to tbe _meaauro of _Farliar mentary Reform ! The noble lord at the head of the government—no one knew It better—eould tell tbe house that at first the demand for reform was most re _raarkably moderate , butas time went oa the demands of the Reformers increased In weight aod intensity , Tbe eame history _minbt be told of the measure by which the Corn Laws were repealed . Upon that important question parliament yielded to a powerful and well-directed organisation ; famine threatened , and parliament dared not any longer resist . By such means had emancipation , reform , and free , trade boen carried ; he therefore entreated tbem to reoollcct that , as members of that housr , they wcre bound assiduously and earnestly to look into and examlue the grievances of which the Irish peo _, pie _complained , with a , view to immediate and effectual
redre . s . In toet part of the country where he resided the working classes were mere numerous than in any < A _* _a _« _gtastetoi tfc . _tws-AU'J _ktegdo-so , una bo felt himself fully warranted in saying that amongst them communist principles had obtained no very great number of vo . _taries . When tbe people In any part of the country were distressed , they naturally and eagerly turned their _attention to any species of change which afforded them a prospect of relief ; but It waa only ta a vtry limited extontthat the doctrines ef communiemhadbeen received _. Upon such symptoms , however , they ought not _implicitlytorely . It was true that rtcently , in Manchester , there bad been a demonstration in favour of good order : he would say a demonstration aB much to be admired And approved an any that had elsewhere bom displayed ; but truth required that the honsB should bs apprised of
this , that tbe people of Lancashire wonld not range themselves on the one side or the other if the object were merely to prevent an expression of opinion . Sueh were the sentiments which he conceived to be prevalent in tbe north of England generally , and he hoped that the knowledge of their existence would not be lost upou the government . He hoped it would be felt both b y MiniBtors and by parliament that the claims whioh many of those persona urged were reasonable ; that it wonld be reasonable to extend the franchise from the limited num . bera wbo at present eDjoyed that privilege totbe 5 , 000 , 000 or 6 , 8 UO , 000 who were without it , but who earnestly deaired its possession , * it should be extended as fust as the number of those persons _incroaaed who desired to share Its action _an _£ to partake of the blessings which it afforded .
Hr Montz repeated his _oojections to the bill _. Lord J , lta . 'SitL briefl y adverted to tbe _different objections urged by the different members against tbis bHl , which , he believed would tend mush to the security of tho peace of the empire . He then referred to the exciting and _infltraraatory language used in Dublin and other parts of Irelaud , observing that it might in some parts of the couatry lead to outrage and insurrection ; but that outrage and insurrection would be put down , because the government had the means of so doing at ita dispooal In the loyalty aad affection of the people , and
In the force of the army , whose fidelity had been most foully and systematically belied in various ways , both in snd out of parliament . He then proceeded to state that immediately after Easter the house would proceed to the discussion of _meaburcs which related to thepolitl oal stato ofthe Irish population . With reference tothe Repeal of the Union , his lordship thus delivered himself . 1 must bsg to allude for a moment to a debate , which was _necBBaarlly interrupted , and to alleged grievances , which are now stated ns a ground for aiking the people of Ireland to resort to arms . We were asked the other
day to consent to tbe repeal of the existing _nnloa between England and Ireland . Now , on looking over the acts and discussions of the parliament in Ireland—that parliament which has beea referred to as one which g ave happiness and contentment te the couutry , and which , if it had continued , would have secured the prosperity and liberties of the people—I find that some of the most distinguished men in Ireland , having at their head Mr _Orattaa—a name never to ba mention-id _rrithout honour - repeatedly stating in that _parliament of Ireland , th ? . * . tbe whole government was carried on by _corruptiontbatalmost the _majority , if notalltl _emvjjrlty of that parliament , received pdusions during pleasure and salaries from the crown—tbat peerages were sold , and tbat tbe whole government was a mass of _selfiahnena and tf bought suffrages in support of the government . I find
that Mr Grattan likewise declared that the suffrages of Ireland in respect to tbe election of members were sold ; tbat in some boroughs there wera only ten . voters , in another only twelve , and that the reform of Parliament was absolutely necessary . I find Hr Grattan , in referring to the details of the mode of collecting titties in Ireland , observed , —and his observation was enforced by great eloquence and amazing vigour of language , —that every farmer and peasant in thecountry was subjected to the dreadful grievance of a ' subordination or vultures . ' He likewise nrgsd that tho great proportion of the people of Irelaud , namely , those proteasing the _lio—an Oathollo faith , were debarred from privileges which the Protestant subjects of that kingdom enjoyed . Let us consider what those grievances were , as stated by one of the most eloquent and able of the patriots of Ireland ,
and what the parliament of the United Kingdom has since done . With respect to peerages and _pentieas , no such abuse now exists aa waB theu stated ., _tfo one will say that anything similar to that whieh Mr GraUau stated , whether _iuttly or not , to be an existing grievance ia his time , is now to be witnessed . As to tithes , tbo question has been _scUkd In auch a manner that it is no longer a grievance to the peasant or the farmer _. With respect to reform of Parliament , that question has likewise boen carried in the united Parliament . With respect to Roman Catbblio relief , and the admission ot Soman _Csthollcs to ( Ac privileges of tbe constitution , that question haa likewise been carried in the united Parliament . Wby , then , we havest least thin presumption in favour of the united Parliament , — that those whicli wera stated to bo tbo greatest grievances wbile
the Irish Parliament lasted have since been redressed by a Parliament of the United Kingdom . ( Cheers . ) If this , then , be the case , — if these friovancoa have been redressed by the Paillameut of the united kingdom , —If , as I believe , the Parliament of tho united kingdom is able to legislate fer Ireland more advantageously for the people of Ireland , and with ( ess chance of _hostile collision with this country , or of discord among the various classes , than the Parliament of Ireland ceold do , then I should say , apart from all imperial interests , that we ave bonnd to withstand all those _measuxte , in . whatever form tbey may appear , which have the repeal of the legislative union for their object . Let auy hon , member bring forward such _propoefcionB as may tend , In his
opinion , to the advantage of , Ireland ; and to any proposition which may be supported by the _gvwt _mnjorttj of the Irish members , havings for its object to improve tbe _Uwa of thecountry , the siiaatlon of landlord and tenant , or to remove any social or pelltical grievance undir which they think they labour , I shall be ready to listen ; but by discussion , if tbe choice shenld bo for argument and debate in Parliament , or if , on the contrary , the _mennB chosen should be exciting the _people to Mass . , mmI to tom _^ _-oV _** of _fwee — _tiieu by fc , rce > , it nece 3 Baiy , I will , _ea long as there is any breath o _? life In me , opp _« iso the septal of tho legislative _uniom _^ Loud cheers . ) The , bouse then divided , when they were— ,
Fur the third reading 295 Against ic ... ... _«•• 40 M » 5 *>* ity , 255 The bill was then read a t ' _i'rd lime . On tho question that the bill do pass , Mr nuME said ho approved of raost of the provisions of thiB bill , bat ho strongly objtctcu 1 o the clause which imposed severe penalties on' open _aa _& advised speaking ;' tad , iu oid * . ' r to plaoo en record his protest against that portion oj the . _nuaeuice _, he wquM move that _ttJQao words
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be omitted . Es considered that if tht government hnA wished to prevent the meetings of ihe National Com ti they had ample power to do so _under the 57 tk Georac in awd . , 0 . % thty possessed that power , is thought __]_ egMt _ u . have exercised it . Hu agreed 'hat moat improper ] _guBge had been used In Ireland ; but ho would aa " tho government to let those who had used such Inn ? l 8 ° waste their breath - ( cries of « Oh , oh ! ' ) -Md to c _*** tent themselves with adopting such proceedings _aiain _* ! those persons as were antfiorfBfld by the _nxlst \ 0 l _j a ° He wonld not take the sense ef the house on his _motioa * as ita opinion bad just been expressed b y so large a ma ! jority , but he wished te put on record his protest agains _* this clause . Mr H _Behki-ley begged for himself , anion behalf 0 f his constituvnts , who—with the exception of a few _ner sons calling themselves Chartists—wera unanimous ia tboir opinions , to thank the noble lord at the head ot the government for _brlrgtag forward so energetic a mea . sura for preserving the peace and tran quillity ofthe country .
The amendment proposed by Mr Hohe was then nega , _tlvnd without a division , and the motion , ' that this bill do pass , * wag agreed to amid cheera from both sides of tbe house ; The etttlng of the house was then , at a quarter past four o clock , suspended until haif . _past five At tho adjourned sitting , Mr A . _Stappom _) moved tbat a new writ be ordered te issue for Horsham , in _tl . e room of Mr _Jaiyis . After a discussion the motion was withdrawn , and Sir J . Hakheb obtained leave te bring in a bill to appoint commissioners to inquire into the existence of corrupt practices at election * fer certain boroughs . Mr _Bodvebie obtained leave to bring in * a bill to enable religious congregations to obtain sites for churches In Scotland . Mr Rr . _TKotDs obtained leave to bring in a bill to _obo « Ii « h the pro ? etg of attachment of goods in Courts of Records of the municipal _corporations of Ireland .
On the motion of Mr Remolds , the Municipal Corporations ( Ireland ) Bill was _rtad a second timo . Sir O . Grey sti _pulating that the bill should not go into _cdmmittee until the government measure on the same subject should be before the house . Tbe houBe adjourned at a quarter past eight o ' clock , WEDNESDAY , Aram 10 . HOUSE OP LORDS . —Thb _Gagoiho Bill . —The _LofcD _CuANcsLuya . moved the second leading of the bill for tho better security of tbe Crown and Govtrament of the United _Kingdom . The noble and learned lord shortly glanced at the acts of those who professed to be friends of the people and of liberty , but who wero the enemies of both , and whose conduct made tho passing of « ome such law ns that now proposed absolutel y ne . eessar y . The danger and _di-turbauce of the public _paaea arose , in this country and Ireland , mainly from open and deliberate incitements to treasoa and sedition , and _ther . fore , to pat an end to such practices wag fl mma portion ot tbe bill ,
Lord Stanley supported the bill , as did Lord Bbocghah , who begged to give a salutary warning to the newspapers ; there was no doubt that Parliament had Certain privileges by which they could protect themselves within doors for whatever they might utter , but let no newspaper reporter or editor here the notion that whatever mi ght be sail in Parliament he had a right to report and print , for if it was treason he was asliaWe to be punished for it as if ho had himself invented it : Bod this might _sIbo bo a warning to those who were daily printing and circulating treason and sedition ut . tered in different parts of the eountry . If they prohibited sedition and treason from bein , ' uttered in the National Convention and similar places , what _signified It whilst la the other Bouse of P rliument such _langusge might bs _uttered and afterwards printed , and sent forth to the _w-i 1 ?
Lord Campbell admitted that tbe bill wonld not reach Mr Smith O'Brien In tho treasonable speech he made in tbo House of Commons tbe other night , or tbe reporters , editors and proprietors of newspapers ; and be should have been _ashamed of tha bill if it bad had such an tffrct . If any member within the walls of Parliament spoke sedition or treason , he must be answerable for such off-nce tbere . One oftbe _maBtoutrageous _utterapts made bj Charles the First , and tbat which was probably tbe main cause of bringing him te the block , Bas the prosecution of members of _parliament in courts of law for speeches made in their places in parliament . He didnot believe that tho publication of the _speeches wbich had bem alluded to ha _^ given any _encouragement to the crimes wMc * they sought to instigate ; on tho contrary , be thought they had bad s strong tendency to rouse the spirit of order in the minds of Englishmen .
( Hear , hear . ) He would he the last to wish to punish any one for _givlns ; faithful reports of tho proceedings in parliament , for he had introduced a clause iuto his bill on thelaw of lib- ! , makin g only the printer and pub _. Usher of the newspaper liable ; and his noble and learned friend opposite ( Lord Brougham ) hxd supported that bill . ( Laughter . ) Ths person who gave a _osnaflde and honeit report of wtiat wok plaea was surely exempt from imputation , and ought not to be liable to punish ment ( Hear , hear . ) He hoped the bill would be efa _cuclfiusfor the purpose for which it was intended _, namely , to restrain seditious and treasonable speeches made in tbe National Convention , a » it was termed , Conciliation Hall , and similar places . ( Hear , hear . ) He disapproved of Lord Eldon ' _s bill in 1796 , and ho still die approved of it _; butitdidnot follow from that he should disapprove of the present measure , the object of which
vr . _i 9 to reduce to tlie crime of felony . a crime which had heretofore been considered high treason , and to extend it to _IrelaBd . Tbere was a clause in the Dili , by wbich w hatever was declared treason under the statute of th 9 25 th of Edw . III ., was still preserved as treason . Ha denied that any new offencewas created by the bill . The ) noble and learned lord apposite ( Lord Brougham ) criticised the _language of the third section of tbe bill , bnt it was totidem verbis tbe language of the 35 Geo . IIL , which was itself taken from the statute of Chavlet II . He would be the last person to consent te a measure of this kind , if he thought it would in tbe least interfere witn . fair and legitimate discussion , With respect to the con . viction of Muir nnd Palmer , lie thought it was not according to law , but was entirel y contrary to law . Their sedition consisted in _making temperate speeches ia favour of the Reform Bill ; and his noble and learned friends had
made , he would not say more violent but certainly more animated _speeches than those for which Muir and Ptlmer were sent to Botany Jay . Under this bill open nnd advised speaking would not constitute an offence . To constitute an offence under this bill it should be ' opia aud advised speaking , ' with the view of compassing the deposition of the Queen , or levying war against the Queen , or _compassing or planning the invasion of the Queen ' a dominions by a foreign force . And he would ask , was it not right to prove these offences by open and ad . vised speaking . The Duke of Weiiinton said he fully approved of tho bill . ( Hear , hear . ) He concurred in the opinion that some measure was rec * ssary for the purpose of making the set quite sufficient in order to oppose some check to those Brent and p , ip > _antio meetings by which this country
and _thelslster kingdom have heen dUturbed for some y eara past . They were at last come to that stage that the law was despised and condemned by every one of those per . sons who broke it . This contempt of the law nn * ruining this country day by day , a . id destroying that respect for it which had been its characteristic for ages : 'the * country was coming to that state that it -would be of no authority , and then there would be no moans of enforcing thelaw except by the use of p hysical force . He warned their 1 -rdships _against iillowinjr their country to come to _saeh a state of things if they wished to preserve its character and the institutions . He hoped that the bill would pass unanimously , and in the shortest space of time , in order thst tho government might put it into operation immediately .
Lord _Demman expressed the highest admiration for the noble duke , but _thrtUghthi _*?* , mistaken _vthen he said that there was a growing contempt for the law ; nothing , so far as his observation went , could be further irom the real character oftbe English people . The Earl of St Gbbhans said , as to ' open and advised speaking-, 'he thought the mischief of the speaking was extremely small , compared with that done b y the publication . The National Convention and the Irish Confederation were but small bodies ; but their proceedings were read by great numbers . It was true the editors ol newspapers exercised a sound discretion in suppressing passages unfit for publication ; and he thought if that discretion were continued , it would be successful In preventing any bad effects . In cases where such _diBcretieu waa not exercised , lot tbe parties be prosecuted .
Lord Caufbell said , if seditious and _treasonable sentiments _Nveve _p \ ibU » hed fox the pnvpoBe ot giving effect to them , that was a h _' ghly culpable m / sdemeanor , or it _might be prosecuted under the present bill as an overt net for compassing the deposition of the Queen . Aa _editorofn newspaper publishing a treaoonnbtespeech with such an intent , might thus be prosecuted * and transported beyond the sew . Tho Lord _OnAMCEXLOR trusted the effect ot this bill would be to stop ' . tie speaking , and then , of course , tha publication wonld be stopped . The bill was then read a second time . The Election Recognizances Bill was then read a third time . Their lordships then adjourned at eight o ' clock .
HOUSE OF COMMON'S . _-OcstmsK ob _Futslic _Bnsii « E 39 after _Kas-ttkb — Lord J . Russell , in , reply ton question from Mr Ewart , stated that the government had received information , which he waa noh at liberty to disclose _,, which rendered the introduction ofa Bill fbr the removal * of _aliensnecessary ; though , as such n Bill was contrary ,-to tho _ondinary policy of thi 3 . ocuntry , it vrould . be onlya ; _temporary measure . Tho _aoble lord ! laade a statements _relative to the position of jrac-lie business before parliament , and gave notice of tbe ordw in which he proposed fc > proceed with the- government measure after tha
recess _Oivt ' h _& _vfloifoathat ' _iWtaYise , at _iksjislnu _, adjourn , to * _Satta-day . M _? Bisraeli drew attention to tha position ofthe _Slafcas . _ivig-Holstein question ., _THURSDAY , Amm . 20 . HOUSE OP _LOI-i 5 > S . _—Ckowxams _Govbhsmes _^ -StBcir-MTI Bill . —On tha-motion that this bill be read ; a third _tisne . Lord Beoughajs said hehad no objection to , Si © reduction of treason to . a minor offense , but he _couldmat allow that opportunity to pass without stating his , conviction that the offence of high treason was just as much deserving of cnpitnlpunlsliuierit as the crime of maider . Lord Campbell _perfectly _agreed with th ** opinion of his noble and Uarued friend , and could nssuw 3 . _* in . e house tlaaJi uo offence was fraught with so much daxgev both to Ufa aud property as Unit of high treason . _^ Ue _^ r _, bear . ) The bill was then read a third time ? , n 4 passed , The Public Works Completion ( _Ireltadl Bill was . ' road a ! third time and _ytassed , after a short , _viiscus'jum .
I heir lordships then adjourned , to Saturday , at two o ' clock .
O The Northern Star. ' " T -^ A Pbil 22,...
_o THE NORTHERN STAR . ' " t - _^ A pbil 22 , _1846 v 1
Printed Vy Dougai* M'Go"Wa!S Of 1g, Great Wsnflmili-
Printed Vy DOUGAI * _M'GO"WA _! s of 1 G , Great _Wsnflmili-
Sweet, Tiii.Ymaru.Et, In Ui«J-Vity , .F ...
sweet , tiii . ymaru . et , in _ui _« _j-vity , . f Westminster , at tht Office , in tlio same Street _audParish , for the Proprietor , FEARGUS O'OOXNOK , _tXq ., U , i > Wld published hy _Wiliiix Hewitt , of _> i \ _-, . is , _Charies-strect , Bran . don , street _, Walworth , in the parish of St . Mary , New . iogton _. inthe County of _Suri-ev , nt tbe Office , _^ o . 16 , _Srest Windmill-street- _Ilnymnfket , in tho _CityoiWcst . _tuiuater _.-Swwiiav April , 22 nd , 1818 .
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), April 22, 1848, page 8, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse2.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/ns4_22041848/page/8/
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