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$m$evial ^arltam^nt.
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HOUSE OF LORDS—Friday , Teb i . Petitions were presented from Scarborough arid © ther places in favour of the total repeal of the Com On the motion of the Marquis ef NOKXiKBT , the Buildings" Regulation Bill and the Boroughs' Improvement Bill passed through committee , and were ordered to be read a third time on Monday . On the motion of the T > uke of Wellington , the Appreciation Acts * Amendment Bill passed through committee , and -was ordered to be read a third time en Monday .
Lord Mosteagle , pursuant to notice , moved for the production of certain papers relative to the appointment of Mr . Eden and Mr . Percival to the Exchequer-Bill-of 5 . ce , and for other papers relative to " the late transactions . The Noble Lord said that his object was to afford information as to the "working of the office , and to bring the "whole business of it distinctly before the country . —Ordered . Lord Brotgbajc said that he was anxious not to mate his motion for papers relative to tha seizure of the Creole in the absence of his Noble and Learned Priend , the Lord Chief Justice of the Qneen s Bench , and , as his Noble and Learned Friend "was unable to attend to it that day , he wguM , with their Lordships ' permission , postpone his motion until Monday . Their Lordships then adjourned to Monday .
Monday , Feb . 14 , The Lobd Chaxcelxob . took his seat on the woolsack at fiTe © "dock-After some petitions in favour of a repeal of the Corn laws had been presented , The Marquia of Nobmaxbt presented a petition from the Mayor and Town Council of Birmingham , praying that the carrying out the provisions of the Regulation of Buildings Bill might be confided to the Town Council , instead of to certain Commissioners , as had been proposed in the BilL The petition rs prayed to be heard by counsel on the subject , at the bar of their lordships' House . The Bfll was then read a third time and passed .
The Marquis of Nob . ma . sbi- wished to impress "upon the Noble Duke opposite the necessity of drawing the attention of hi 8 colleagues in the Government to the propriety of introducing a Bill for the drainage of towns iato the other House . The Borough Improvements' Bill was read a third time , and passed . On the motion of the X > uke of WEl / LrNGTOS the Appropriatioa Acts * Amendment Bill was read a third time and passed . Lord Brougham moved for the production of the correspondence relating to the American ship Creole ; but after a short debate , the motion was withdrawn , and the House a ^ jcumed .
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HOUSE OF COMMONS . —Fbidat , Peb . 11 . Mr . Arkwright took the oaths and his seat for Leosilnster . On the motion cf Sir G . Clebk , the following Members w « Ere nominated the Select Committee on Petitions fox Private Bills . — Mr . Strutt , Mr . Robert Clive , Mr . Rice , Mr . VilHers Stuart , Mr , Wrightson , Mr . G Cavendish , Mr . Compton , Mr . Brotherton , Mr . Pakington , Mr . Forbes , Mr . Wm . Beckett , Mr . Bramston , Mr . Walker , Mr . George Philips , Mr . Bell , Mr . Gibson Craig , the O'Connor Bon , Mr . M'Kenzie , Mr . Horsmaa , Mr . Eliot Yorke , Mr . Blemble , Mr . Aflionby , Sir John Yarde Buller , Captain Jones , Mr . Thornely , Mr . Bsrneby , Mr . Cbalmers , Mr . Tatton Egerton , Mr . Stansfield , Lmd Wcrsley , Mr . Henry Baillia , Mr . Edward Buller , Sir Wm . Heathcote , Mr . Hope Johnstone , Mr . Morgan John O'Connell , Mr . Packe , Mr . George Wm . Wood , Mr . Evans , Mr . Home Drummond , Mr . Parker , Mr . Marshall , and Sir Charles Dauslas .
Petitions were presented in great numbers , praying lor the total repeal of the Corn Laws . Sir C . Napier asked thn Bight Hon . Baronet ( Sir B . Peel ) whether he had any objection to lay before the Souse a copy of the instructions given by Sir R . Stopford to General Mitchell , General Jackson , and Capt Stewart , after the submission of Mehemet A . U -, also the Instructions given by Lori . Ponsonby to General Jackson and Mr . Wood ; likewise , if any correspondence lias taken place between the British and Turkish Governments , relative to the amelioration of the inha . bitants of Lebanon , as was promised by the allied powers .
Sir Robert Peel said that the instructions had been searched for but could sot be found . He did not think that the production of the correspondence relating to the amelioration of Syria would "farther the Gallant Admiral's object , if produced , an * he ( Sir Robert Peel } must , therefore , exercise bis discretion in ¦ withholding it ; but he would assure the Hon . and Gallant Admiral , that every effort on the part of the present government would be made to cause the Porte to fulfil its engagements with reipect to the amelioration of the condition of its subjects , and in granting the papers Hsoved for would be but defeating the object -which the gallant officer had in view . —The subject then
dropped . Mr . Mjbk Phixips intimated to the House that he should for the present withdraw his motion for a " Copy of the letter from Mr . Amory to Lord Palmerston , dated August 28 th , 1841 , together with its accompanying papers , and of the correspondence which followed thereon between Lord Aberdeen , Lord Canning , Mr . Amory , and Mr . Kinder . ** The Honourable Member said that whenever it should be his intention again to bring the matter before the House , he would give fall notice of the same . He assured the House that when ha gave notice list night he was not at all aware that tiie Kobls Lord to whom it related ( Lard Ashbarton ) had sailed—( bear , hear . )
Mr . Fox Matjle moved a return of the number of Jury eases in the first division of the Court of Session , from the 1 st day of Jannary , 1832 , till the 31 st day of July , 1841 ; specifying those in which the late Lord President of the Court of Session presided , and those in which any other and what Judge presided . Sir J . G&ahax resisted the motion , and said he trusted that the delate of last sight would not be repeated . Mr . Fox Maule consented to withdraw it . Mr . Waklbt expressed his surprise at the readiness with which the Hon . Gentleman consented to withdraw bis motion , and said it was calculated to'impress the public mind with the conviction that the side of the House to which he belonged * as in error , and that the other side possessed all the truth—( hear , hear . ) He hoped the right Hon . Gentleman would persist in his motion . After a few words from Mr . Roebuck .
Sir R . Peel said the grounds on which the house had refused the notion were , that in departing from the usual course a reflection would be cast on the conduct and character of two judges . The metion of to-night contained the same reflection as that of last night , and the Hon . Gentleman feeling that , had consented to ¦ withdraw it . Mr . O'Cosseli . thought it was a little too bad to refuse the returns sought , when the Hon . Gentleman bad removed from this motion that which was objected to in that of last night . Mr . Hope Johnson defended the character of the Lord President , and said that whenever he was absent from hit post , it was from illness , or causes that might affect any man in a similar position . The House divided . The numbers were—For the motion 113 ; Against it , 130 ; Majority againsf the motion , 26 .
Mr . Mixxbs called the attention of the House to the ease of those persons committed to the House of Correction tX Salford , for non-attendance on some place of religious worship . This conviction , he said , was harsh and unjust in the extreme , and was founded on an old act of James , which was altogether opposed . to the spirit of the present time . He therefore would call upon the Right Hon . Baronet to exert his legislative ability t » repeal or amend so unjust an act As it w&s necessary that be should conclude with a motion , he -would move that a humble address be presented to her Majesty , praying that she would be graciously pleased to order a copy of the commitment of W . Daaxden to the New Biiley , Manchester , by Clement Rogers , and James Royds , at Rochdale , for non-attendance at church daring divine service on the Lord's day . The question having been put from the chair ,
Sir James Graham said he was the last person to vindicate the practice of magistrate * who , when a party was brought before them charged with one offence , proceeded to convict him for another , upon same enactment almost fallen into desuetude—( hear , hear . ) Such a practice was altogether unjust , and ought to be put an end to . Neither did he staad there to say that the exaction of such penalties as these was in accordance with the spirit of the age . He did not think that temporal penalties were proper means to enforce the performance of spiritual and personal duties . His Hon . Friend had called attention to the existing penalty under the Uniformity Act , but it must be remembered that , by the Act of Toleration , these dissenters from the Church of Jfagland who took the oaths of allegiance and supremacy were exempted from their penalties . To persons not dissenters , however , the Toleration Act gave so protection , and they were consequently still
liable -to the penalties of the Act of Uniformity ; so that he really believed that on Wednesday last all Hon . Members of the House wbo were members of the Church of England , and all Hon . Members wbo were dissenters from the Church , on failing to shew that they bad taken these oattu would have been legally liable , and might have been convicted in penalties far non-attendamoe * t church—( hear , bear . ) H « thought that such a state of the law ought not to eontinne ; but he felt , nevertheless , that to touch the Acts of Uniformity and Toleration would require from the Government very great caution , and he was not diipased to state without deliberation what was the best course to be pursued . However , he would not shrink frem stating that , if the Government should be able to find a suitable remedy , they -would feel it their duty to apply it , whatever it might be . The House then adjourned ,
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Monday , February 14 . Use Speaker teek the chair s little before four o ' clock . A great number of petitions both against the Corn Laws generally , and against the Ministerial measure respecting them , were presented by different Members . Captain Boldero presented the Ordnance estimates . ¦ On the motion of Sir T .. Fbebmantle a new writ was ordered for the Southern Division of the County of Salep , in the room of the Earl of Dariington , now Duke of Gieveland . Dr . Botvrikg postponed his motion with respect to the quarantine laws to Thursday next . Mr . Terkos Smith gave notice of his intention to call the attention of the House to-morrow on the subject of emigration . Mr . DIsbaeli gave notice of his intention shortly to move the blending of diplomatic bodies .
On the motion of Mr . Shaw returns were ordered cf the mortality of infants in the North Union Workhouse of Dublin . Sir D . Roche begged to ask the Right Hon . Gentlejoan f » r the satisfaction of the large holders of bonded com and cattle—Jgreat laughter )—when it was intended to apply the new duties , sbeuld his meatuie ever pass the House— ( laughter )—to provisions now in bond . S r R , Peel understoed the question to be—supposing the measure should pass—in what time was it
proposed to apply the new duties to corn bonded 10 this country?—( hear , hear , from Sir D . Roche . ) He ceuld not see why the new duties should not come immediately into operation on the passing of the Act As to cattle , he was not aware of there being any in bond—( laughter )—but perhaps the Hon . Bart , was referring to a former statement of his ( Sir R . Peel ' s . ) What he meant was , in reference to other articles of provision besides corn ; it was his opinion , and that of his colleagues , that the prohibition ought not to exist —( hear . )
Mr . LaBocchere wished to put a question to the Right Hon . Gentleman the Yice-President of the Board of Trade , respecting the regulating duties of the Colonies , which he was bringing before the consideration of the House . It wa relative to the importation of corn from America into Canada . The House was aware that at present the importation of com and flour from America into Canada was duty free , and the question he wished to ask was , whether he "was to understand the effect of the schedule of duties laid on the table of the Hco . se , to be to put a duty of 3 s . * quarter on American flour imported from America into Canada . . Mr . Gladstone said that the resolution which had been announced to the House was unquestionably one which would raise the question of placing a duty of 3 s . on corn imported from America . The question would be raised , and he wculd then state the intention of the Government .
Mr . Lalocchehe wished to ask the Right Honourable B-ironet ( Sir R . Peel ) whether it was the intention of Government to allow the importation of flour in bond . Sir R . Peel was aware that Irish Members took great interest in this subject , and remembered the opposition they gave last Session to the proposition involved in the present question ; but he was bound to say , that in case of a change of the Corn and Provision Laws , he could adopt no special legislation ; for though it was a provision exporting country , no exception could be made in her favour—( hear . ) Mr . Roebuck gave notice to the effect that when the question of the importation of provisions from the Colonies came before the House , he would take the sense of the House on the question , whether or not it was competent for the House to tax the Colonies . ( Hear . ) THE CORN LAWS . —ADJOURNED DEBATE .
Sir R . Peel now moved that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House , and resume the debate on the duties affecting the import of foreign corn . Mr . Green b bavin ? taken the Chair , Lord JOHN RUSSELL said , Sir , I believe I shonld in no way diminish the difficulties of the task I have undertaken , or obtain greater power for my arguments , if I were to commence my address te the House by preface or introduction . Therefore , I shall at once call the attention of the House to the position in which they no n stand . The question of the Corn Laws has been submitted to us by the First Minister of the Crown . In proposing the scale he has lsid before us , be has not only acted npon the authority of the Government over which be presides ; but he has also informed nsthat having collected the opinions of those ¦ most interested
in agriculture , he found there were but very few of that class who were not in favour ef some modification of the existing corn law . We , therefore , now stand in the situation of considering the Corn Laws with a view to alteration by almost general consent —( hear , hear ) The cry is no longer that of surrender—( cheers . ) The question is , as to the terms of the continuation —( hear , hear . ) Sir , if that be the case ; we are prepared to condemn the present Corn Laws as unfit to be longer continued on the statute book as inapt for the purpose fer which they have been enacted , of regulating the trade in corn ; I say then , without fear of contradiction , that it is of the utmost importance that you should make that change upon sound principles : that you should endeavour to make it give as much as possible of general satisfaction ; especially to that distressed portion of the community , of whose condition we have heard such lamentable accounts from both
sides of the House ; and lastly , that it should be such a law that it would not be liable to cause an immediate fresh agitation of the question , bat that all who are to live under that law , all who have transactions , in that most impertant of all articles of food , which comprehends , in its various classes , the whole community , that they should be aware of the state of law under which they are to live ; and be prepared to state that for a time at least , it should net be disturbed —( hear . ) Sir , I think it necessary , however I may be obliged to trespass on the indulgence of the House in giving you my reasons for opposing , in this early stage , the measure ef the Government , to state as briefly as I can the general principles which should guide our legislation upon ttiis subject . I do so , because although in one point I
should agree With the principles laid down by the first Minister of the Crown , there are other points on which I entirely differ from him . I suppose it will be agreed that with respect to corn , as with respect to everything else , the general principle is one cf not legislating at all upon the subject—( hear , hear . ) The general principle with regard to all commodities is , that the producer or the seller endeavours to produce and to bring to market that which is most likely to find a ready and immediate purchaser ; and f&e purchaser , on his side , goes to market to obtain the goods of which he is most in need , the best in their quality , and the cheapest in their price , therefore legislators have no place on the subject . The community themselves are fax better judges than the
wisest Senate on the matter . The community themselves , in their SBveral capacities , choose which are the articles of which they stand in need—they choose from whom they purchase them , and those arlicles which afford profit . The producers themselves are the best judgea of the articles they shall produce , and of the markets to which they shall bring their productions . I therefore think your legislation is unwise , and the effect of this legislation of yeurs has been to cause the occupation of certain lands , and the employment of many labourers upon them . You should endeavour to protect the labourers in your own country from an excess of taxation . But , Sir , I come then to agree to so much of protection as might be asked under these twe heads . If it should be found in Committee—if it
should be found , in discussing this matter la Committee , that there are undue preferences in the country I mention , I think they should be removed . If , however , It shonld be proved that there are no such preferences , if taere be encouragement given to agriculture by this law , that shonld likewise be taken into consideration , but the Government in proposing the plan now before the House , take a wider range ; they laid their principle far more wide ; they Jaid down the principle adopted by Malthus , which principle was acted upon by the Legislature of this country on a former occasion . You ou § ht to make yourselves independent of foreign nations —( cheers . ) Now that is the principle upon which the present law is framed—that is the principle upon which tha proposition of the Right Hon . Baronet
is framed , and which tends to prevent by prohibition other nations from sending food into this country . I confess , therefore , although this proposition may be excellent to some remote and sequestered state—although it might suit a state in Mexico , I cannot conceive how it ean be applicable to a great commercial country . Supposing it ware desirable , in what manner would you establish it in practice ? You must recollect it is not merely with respect to com . The Right Hon . Baronet stated the other night that they had had for font years an impertation of 4 , 300 , 060 quarters , so that it might be said that the people of the country were dependant upon foreign countries for upwards of one million of quarters a year . With respect to the other commodities the employment of the people engaged in
manufactures as much depends npan the supply of the raw material as food . If the supply of cotton from America were stopped , or the supply of foreign silk , there would be not less than five millions of people deprived of employment There would be seven millions of your people , if you go on this principle , who were dependent upon foreign nations for their food , and wbo cannot but continue to be so dependent—( hear , bear)—so that it is evident that any attempt which you have made to make this country independent of foreign countries has foiled , and every such attempt must necessarily fail—( hear . ) The only way in which I conceive this object of the law to be wished for at all is in the easa of war with
foreign natiou . I cannot conceive greater time of war than when thu country was straggling agaiuBt Napoleon -Hhaar , hear . ; Bat , daring the time of that war , two million quarters of corn were imported in one single year—{ bear . ) That importation was greatly diminished in subsequent years ; but iVli a * that time this country was admitting foreign corn , tbere being no law to prevent the importatioa , and th e people were living partly on the produce of other natkms . But is there any chance or probability that you vrM &avo a greater war than that to contend with ? Bu 6 & afeere was , still I szy that resting as you are upon xesuaerce and manufacture , the supply of food would be ia-danfe-cr ; but it would not be in the danger that is a vpxetotnded— ( hear , hear . ) Therefore , the remedy shi-mli 1 » the very
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reverse of that which is proposed to the House—( cheers . ) The remedy proposed to the House as taken from the Right Hon . Gentleman ' s argument , is to endeavour as much as possible to protect our native productions , and to make such a law as never to have any supply except from the northern parts of Europe . The Right Hon . Gentleman in that argument said that the countries with which we have our commerce are nearly in the same latitude as this country is , and that consequently , their seasons were nearly the same as ours . In other words , the Right Hoh . Baronet endeavoured to maintain that as a necessary consequence , when those countries bad abundance of provisions , bo would this country have abundance , and when those countries had a scarcity bo a \ s » we
weuld have a scarcity — ( loud cheering from the Opposition Benche ? . ) A 1 that argument went upon the supposition that we should have a law such as that which exists at present , which confines the supplies of this country —( hear , hear . ) A real remedy could ni > tbe had in that way—our supplies should not be restricted or confined to those countries alone , but instead of having our supplies in those countries , and in the North of Europe exclusively , we should be supplied by ..-the North of Europe—by the countries adjacent to the Black Sea , and by every other country all over the world . Our commerce should be extended all over the whole world for the purpose of giving us that supply of food of which we so greatly stand in need—( hear , and cheers . ) Sir , the proposal now made to the House by
the resolution proposed by the Right Hon . Baronet opposite , maintains the principle of a sliding scale , and it maintains the principle of a high duty —( loud cheers from the Opposition Benches , and counter cheerp . ) In objection to that sliding scale , the first objection I take to it is , that a high and prohibitory duty , I should say , always forms part of that scale —( hear , hear , and loud cheers . ) I can understand a scale not exceeding 10 s . or 12 s , and going down to 4 ? . or 2 s ., or Is ., but I find that whenever Honourable Gentlemen speak of a sliding scale , it always contains a high and a prohibitory duty . What is the first duty in this proposed measure ? The first duty is 20 f . upon all foreign wheat —( cries of hear , hear . ) I wish now to show first , that that is a prohibitory duty
—( cheers . ) I have looked at the papers which contain the latest information the House has bad upon the subject . I have looked at those papers which were presented to the House by the Right Hon . Gentleman , the Vice President of the Board of Trade , and also I have looked at the papers which were presented to Parliament , last year , by a gentleman who was expressly sent to the North of Europe for the purpose of ascertaining the precise state of trade there—a gentleman who bad communications there not only with official persons , but also with merchants and persons in trade there . I was surprised at first that the Right Hon . Gentleman ( Sir Robert Peel ) in the course of his speech , having collected as he did , his information from that Gentleman ' s psperg , should have made an attack upon that
Gentleman ; but when I looked at these papers my surprise cea sed , for I discovered that it was merely another proof of the discretion of the Right Hon . Gentleman—( laughter and cheering . ) I find that the price of wkeat inDantzic is 35 s . j that the charges which they say must necessarily be incurred , and of which I need not go into details , would be 4 s . 6 d . to 5 s ., making in all 103 . 6 tl . to be added to the original price ; that as the original price at Dantzic , when brought from the interior of thecountry , would be 35 s ., they say , with the addition of 10 s . 6 d ., it would be sold in England , making the price of 45 s . 6 d . What have we to add to that ?—icries if" hear , hear" )— 20 s—making 65 s . 6 d ., when the price here is 50 s . ; being cf course a prohibitory daty—( cheers ) And in the same way , at
Odessa , it is stated in the return , that the pries will be 2 Cs ., and freight 10 s . ; of course , we must add to that some charges which we cannot take at less than 5 s ., there would be 61 s ., without the profit of the merchant . Therefore , with respect to these lower sum g , you see there shall be a prohibitory duty of 20 s ., and that when corn is 65 s ., there shall be a duty of 18 s . ; yet in all these instances it would be shown that the duty would be prohibitory . That when the price of grain is 55 s . and 56 s . —tbe price at which tbe Right Hon . Gentleman says it ought to be—when that favourite and chosen price is the one , and nobody can tell why that should be the price —( hear , from the Opposition benches)—there would then be a prohibitory duty on foreign corn ; true , the Right Hon . Gentleman
says , and he says most truly , "I think 20 s . is quite sufficient ; " and no doubt he is perfectly right—( hear . ) I think those duties of 45 s . and 47 s ., as we had in one year when corn was 39 s ., are odious , and ought not to be endured . I agree with tbe Right H- n . Gentleman , and I think that in 1821 , if they said 28 s . will exclude foreign corn , we don't want a door stronger than to keep tbe corn out If the door be itself strong enough , we have no occasion to put on iron plates and locks ; therefore , we will be satisfied with a . duty of 203 . — ( hear , hear . ) But I must and do hope that we have arrived at a period in this question when we have a greater claim than what is entertained in the plan proposed by the Right Hon . Gentleman opposite , which , though it makes the old system appear rather less
odious to the country , in reality is nothing but a mockery —( hear , hear . ) I have mentioned the price of corn at Danteic and Odessa , and if we reckon the average price of com at 45 s ., the duty of 20 s . raises it to 05 s . ; therefore , with respect to all foreign countries , I maintain that this duty of 20 s . is prohibitory ; it is not possible for me to say , though I have endeavoured to ascertain it , at what price duty ceases to be prohibitory . As the price increases , and the merchant gets a better pries , tbe duty fails . I should think , according to the statement I have made , that it could be imported at the preBent price , which is 6 s ., but it appears to me that corn brought from Dantzic will be 45 s . 6 d ., which , with the profit ? it requires , could hardly be sold at the present price of corn , namely , sixty-one
shillings . Up to this point you have a prohibitory duty . Now , Sir , I need not say that a prohibitory duty strikes at all the principles of trade . I do . not mean to say every trade of the country , but at all the principles of trade . It is this that has caused so muoh mlBchief in the Corn Laws as they at present stand . The merchant buys an article in foreign countries , it may be at an advantageous price , ot not according to the market ; and after incurring great expense , and after making himself liable to a large sum of money in order to bring articles from foreign countries , he finds , on bringing them to this country , a prohibitory duty staring him in the face , offering an insuperable obstacle to bis trade by this impediment thrown in its way . ( Hear , bear , hear , and loud cheers . )
Thus is the sliding scale in its nature inimical to trade . Now , what has been the consequence during th « last year of some of these duties ? It is stated very well In two pamphlets written on this subject , tbe one by Mr . Hubbard , and the other by Mr . Greg . In one it is shewn that , in June last—nay , I think on the 5 th of July , that the price of Dantzic Wheat was 48 s . a quarter , and you might have obtained it out of bond at 54 s . or 56 s . a quarter . It was not admitted on the 5 th of August , when corn had risen to 60 s . ; yet still it was not admitted the speculator had reason to believe that he could obtain a better price for it In the beginning of September , only two months after the time when it might have been sold at 4 Ss ., it was sold for 70 s ., thus being an addition of 22 a . per quarter—( bear ,
hear , and cheers ) Was that a benefit to the English fanner—( loud cheers )—or was it a benefit to the landowners of thia country ?—( cheers . ) No , it was given to the foreign speculator or holder of corn , thus benefitting them alone , without any benefit whatever to the consumer—( loud cheers . ) The corn was admitted at an enormous price without any benefit to the revenue or the consumer . Mr . Greg states—but I think it is an over calculation that he has made—but he states that the money paid to the holders of corn , and to the growers in foreign countries , was not less than £ 6 , 000 , 000 . As I said , I think that is over the mm , but I should think nor , less than £ 3 , 000 , 000 or £ 1 , 000 , 000 have necessarily been paid in order to obtain tbe benefits of this sliding
scale—( loud cheers . ) It was a tribute paid to the sliding scale , but a loss to the country—( loud cheers . ) Sir , I have another statement which I have received to-day , which shows another evil of the sliding scale . You say that yon will take the duty according to those averages . The Right Hon . Bart , did not say how be would settle the averages . He said they shall not be altered , they shall betaken much in the same way as heretofore . Now , take the averages as you may , there is one effect inherent , they do not tell tbe quality of the corn —( bear . ) During the present year , as has happened in one of the former years , a great portion of the Corn was -rery much damaged ; some persons , well acquainted with agriculture , say not less than a fifth of the whole crop of England . The consequence b& 3 been
& very great lowering of the price of corn in the market But do the people get their bread at all cheapor ?—( cries of hear , hear . ) You hove a duty now of 26 a ., perhaps instead of some lower sum , because it has come to that degree of cheapness ; but that degree of cheapness is not cheapness to the consumer of bread , because he is paying as much ss when the average was much higher . Now , a gentleman who has written on this subject says , that in tbe beginning of 1841 , in the month of January , the average price of Wheat was 61 s 2 d ., that in January 1842 , the average price was also 61 s 2 d . You would , therefore , suppose the price being the same , the averages being the same , the duties being the same , that the people could obtain their bread at the same price . Is that the case ? far from it . The price of the best town flour at Mark-lane in the first four months of 1841 , was 55 s . a sack , and in 1842 it was 61 s . a sack , making a difference of n « less than 6 s . in tbe sack of
flour , in that sack of flour , from which the bread is admitted to be made , while the averages and the duty whicbyou impose , bayenotaltered a single shilling . Now that is a fault—that is a defect , which you could not get rid of even if yon were to change your system of averages twenty times , and to introduce 150 towns mote than now proposed to be iHtroduced —( laughter from the opposition . ) It is a fault by which you are charging the people with improper doty , by which yon are making the poor labourer of this country pay a high price for his com , end at tbe same time are excluding foreign corn from this country—( hear . ) Sir , another defect which is likewise manifest in this scale , or in any scale , is that you require foreign corn nt particular femes , when you are unable to obtain it by that exchange of articles which accompanies a regular trade . You have prohibition for two or three years . You then find that a large supply will be required . The price rises enormously—as I have shown you thepiice rises its . in the course of two months . You have
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many millions to pay , arid you have no means of meet * ing the demand by sending our goods . You have not a regular trade . You are obliged to send out part of ^ ypur stock of bullion to pay for that corn . The Bank of England naturally and inevitably contracts its issue ; and that contraction takes place whilst the whole commercial world is in a state of embarrassment—( hear , bear , )—when your manufacturers are unable to give employment to their artisans , and when those artisans are paying increased prices for the articles of sustenance . There must , no deubt , be seasons in which corn will be much higher than at others . I admit thatjaud I dp not think you can have a regular low price , or a perfectly steady price , at all . But this I da- say—this 1 do assert , that If there are difficulties placed by nature
in the way of such steadiness of price , you have by your bad legislation aggravated those difficulties —/ Cheers from the Oppbsitioni ) You have heaped embarrassment upon embarrassment , and piled dirBculty upon difficulties—( hear . ) A steadiness of price should be the object of your legislation , and that is totally jncorapatible with a prohibition at one moment , and a free admission at another—( hear , hear . ) Then with respect to'frauds ; I wish to say » few words upon that subject . I cannot think , however , with the Right Hon . Gentleman , that while there are now very aerious frauds , there will not also be very serious frauds under his scheme ; because , put it as you may , the raising of the price ia in every instance to be accompanied with alowering of the duty ; and to the extent of
the reduction you necessarily hold out a temptation to fraud . In the year 1830 , I think ; a Committee of tbe House Bat and investigated and exposed a great number of frauds that had been committed with respect to the averages , and they advised what they considered a remedy for thpse frauds . You had , hpWever , latheiast year—you had , in the years 1838 and 1839 frauds existing which were noborious- ^ -you had the marketa raised 9 s , a qaarterin a single week , all f or the purpose and with the contrivance , of obtaining a reduction of the duty . That at least is a bad system of legislation which gives encouragement to fraud and gambling speculations , when you ought to have an honest and wholesome trade . But there is another and most serious effect of the sliding Bcale which I have touched upon
before , namely that it confines your supplies to countries in the North of Europe—( hear , hear . ) You have a deficient harvest , a scarcity in this conntry , and a rise in prices—you then send immediately orders and ships to Dantzio , and to all the ports which communicate with us in the Baltic , for cargoes of wheat ; in order to take advantage of our low duty . That corn comes in , arid you are to remain Hatiefied with that supply . But , suppose any merchant should say , "the prices . of corn from the Baltic are too high . I know there is a market for British goods in North America . I know that if their corn could be Bent here in exchange for our goods I could dispose of it , and that the transaction would be profitable in both ways . ( Hear , hear . ) But if he were to send an order to America , the duty
may have risen by the time that the car < > o has arrived , and then your prohibitions stand in his way ; then your prices may have fallen , your duty may be highland be will find that for two or three years that cargo is left upon his hands , and he is a loser by the whole transaction . What a defect must that be in the law , whieh does not permit you to go at all to the most favourable market , which , does not permit you to go to the United States for your supply—ihear , hear . ) Indeed , with respect to our commerce with foreign nations , there seerhs to be nothing more desirable than that wo should endeavour to retain and to improve our trade with America ; and 1 should say to you . most emphatically , "Preserve the markets of theUnited States , and of the Brazils . '" Great quantities of goods manufactured by
us have been imported to these countries . By adopting common rules , and by adhering to common sense , you would retain , improve , and enlarge almost indefinitely , those marketa—( hear , and cheers . ) But no , you say * the present laws won't do , we niust a 1 ter them , and make a new contrivance , by which we may shut the door against the United States , and refuse to admit their produce to out matketv I have here a statement which I have taken from Buckingham ' s "work on America—an important extract—on the extent and means of production of the state of New York alone , as regards the growth of wheat , arid which I shall take the liberty of reading to t ! ie House . [ The Noble Lord read the extract in a low veice ; but the substance of the quotation was , that this fertile territory extended
from : the Lakes in the North to Ohio in the South , embracing an area of 280 , 000 square miles , being twice as large as the kingdom of France , and six times the fliza of England . It contained 188 , 000 , 000 acres of land , and was irrigated by , or branching on the Ohio , the Wisconsin , and the Mississippi . Within twenty ^ one years its population has increased to the number of 3 , 000 , 000 , and it was calculated that by tbe year 1850 it would have swelled to the aggregate of 6 , 000 , 000 . ] Now , proceeded tue Noble Lord , thia great population , this vast extent of fertile and arable land is removed from this country to such a distance , that on the authority of Mr . Curtis wheat could not be exported from those districts to our ports for less than from 43 s . to 47 s . a quarter ; so that the American could not
be considered a competitor by the English farmer , at least while there would be no just grounds to regard the American farmer as such , the people of that country would be great consumers of your manufactures—( hear ;) I do believe that ({ , 000 , 000 of people inhabiting so fertile a country would naturally prefer the pursuit of agriculture to manufactures—( cheers ) . I believe that , they would be glad to receive your manufactures in exchange for their food and exporte-Hcheers)—for however the manufacturers of the Unitad States may be advancing , they cannot yet give the bulk of the people sufficient occupation , and it is probable that they will not do so for a long time—( hear . ) You have it in your power to establish a commerce of an extensive and useful kindof giving food to the people and employment to tbe
poor and in future years o ? enabling them to avoid that horrible distress which has prevailed of late—of bestowing comfort OQ the inhabitants of this kingdom while they consume the products of distant countries— - ( hear , hear . ) But , instead of this , you say "We have the power of regulation in our hands arid we will use it to stop this great trade . We have the power in our hands to stop this accumulation of human comfort and prosperity , and because we have the power , we undertake to place a barrier against if— ( loud cheers . ) Sir , such 'would be the effect of your continuance of the sliding scale . The objection was , that they could not avoid dearnesa in certain years , either , by a fixed duty or by any other fixedplan . We have a right , Sir , to reject the plan at present
proposed for one more consonant with the maxims of trade—more consonant with the deductions of science —and , above all , more consonant with the petitions of bur suffering population—( loud cheers . ) Opposed then , as I am , Sir , to the plan of a eliding scale , and thinking that any plan founded on that basis ought to be / rejected , I shall , if that plan be also presented , be ready to discuss the subject with those who oppose tbe laying on of any duty at all . I think that a : moderate fixed diity < inighi ! beproposedtinthpropriety ; h \ i . t'whatl propose , in the present instance , is the rejection ef the plan proposed by her Majesty's Ministers—( hear , hear . ) If it should be found that there are no exclusive burdens on agriculture —( hear , )—I should then Bay , make such a provision of a duty , as shall prevent
a sudden change , and prevent the falling into distress of great masses of agricultural labour . But if there should be , as I believe there are , peculiar burdens on agriculture , then impose a duty as moderate as you possibly can , in consideration of those burdens . Do not let us raise a single shilling— -not a single farthing above what is absolutely necessary . If there is , as the Right Hon . GentlemaH states that there is , an advantage in submitting to restrictions for the . sake of the general interest , this argument , to be unconquerable , must be supported by good and sensible reasons —( hear , hear . ) Now , Sir , for a fixed duty we have , for a sliding Bcale it ia not possible to have , such reason * . It may be said in favour of a fixed duty that it has been recommended at different times by persons of great
authority—ihear , hear . ) The first recommendation is from Mr . Malthus , who , in 1816 , proposed , after a certain time , that the duty Bhould become fixed at 10 s . His proposal for a duty on foreign corn was tbat it should be first 20 s ., and fall 1 & , year by year , till it come to 10 p ., where it should remain . Mr . M'Cullock , another advocate for a fixed duty , stated that , instead of the burdens of agriculture being equivalent to ft fixed duty of 10 s ., that a duty of 5 s . would be a full protection ^( hear . ) The Committee of 1821 , which comprised many persons eminent in agriculture , among others , the Hon . Gentleman the Paymaster of the Forces , Sir T . Gooch , and many personsi . ' of all classes and all opinions , also recommended a fixed duty . Sir Robert Peel expressed his dissent .
Lord John Russell—Does the Right Hon . Gent . Iemau dispute that ? The report begins by expressing a doubt whether there can be any solid foundation for agricultural prosperity expected by abstaining as far as possible from legislative interference with agriculture , either by protection or prohibition of importation—( loud cheers ;) ; The report then goes on to state that agriculture had flourished most when a free importation of corn bad been allowed . ( The Noble Lord proceeded to read various extraote from the report of the Committee alluded to ; from which it appeared that the Committee recommended a modification of the existing law , which produced much inconvenience from the sudden manner in which the ports were opened under its enactments , and the consequent sudden influx of corn into the market , and suggested a remedy that , whenever the ports were open , corn should bei admitted at a fixed duty . The resiling of this extract was followed by loud cheering and counter cheering . )
Permit me to observe , that although the Committee recommends a fixed duty , I cannot but think thai the person who drew up the report , arid who so well explained and understood the principles of free trade , . and so anxiously advised an adoption of those principles , must when he recommended it , have considered tbe adoption of a fixed dfety as a temporary measure , as the best probably whichhe could obtain at the time —( haw , hear )—but must have looked forward to the ultimate adoption of the great principle which he bad so distinctly laid down in the commencement of the Report , and bave considered that the time would at length arrive when all protection and all prohibition should cease . ( Cheers . ) One rf the objections to a plan of a fixed duty is , that it would , in times of scarcity , prevent an adequate supply from coming into the . market When I had the honour to propose a plan for a . fixed duty to the House / 1 atated my belief that tite im'poaition of a fixed duty would in a great measure pie vent
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the occerrence of scarcity by securing a | constant arid regular supply ; but , at the same time , I stated there might be various methods of preventing a fixed duty acting in such a manner in times of scarcity ; and one of the remedies was to give to the Government the power of entering the ports under certain circumstances . I think that may be better than tbe view taken by the Committee of 1821 . It may , perhaps , be better that at a certain point , 73 s . or 74 s . there should be no duty : ( Great cheering from the Ministerial side of the House . ) I say that is matter of consideration . I proposed before that in case of scarcity there should be a discretionary power allowed to the crown , arid I now say , as an alternative , that it should be considered whether in the case of high prices , the duty should not cease ;
( Hear , hear . ) The Right Hon . Gentleman stated the other night , that it would be necessary for the purpose of the Tithe Commutation Act , that the system of average should be kept up—( loud cheers . ) : But what he stated more particularly was , that if you had corn very cheap , there would 'be such abundance from foreign countries , that then the English agriculturalists would , be ruined by the competition and he stated if you have corn very dear , then the keeping up of a fixed duty would be an evil and a grievance . With respect to the former of these objections , I think the protection to the farmer is the cheapness-- ( cheers )—of the abundant year . Then with respect to dear years , I am ready , and always was . ready to say , that I think ; a greater advantage would be given by it to the foreign
merchant than to the English agriculturist . There is another part of the subject upon whieh I have not said a word , and which the Bight Honourable Gentleman dismissed at the commencement of the address to the House—I mean the distress that prevails in the country . That that distress exists to a great extentthat it , exists in Leeds , Manchester , a great part of the cotton dittrict , and part of Scotland , Is now by no person denied . It was stated in the strongest terms by the Hon . Gentleman who seconded the Address ( Mr . Beckett . ) The Right Hon . Baronet states that he does not propose his present corn bill as any remedy for that distress—( hear , hear)—nor does he think the Corn Laws , as they at present exist , are at all answerable for that distress . Now , Sir , I should not say they were
the cause of the whole of this distress , but they tended very considerably to aggravate it ; and I think that a great relaxation of your Corn Laws would tend greatly , though not , perhaps , immediately , to mitigate that distress —( hear , bear , hear , and ebeera ) What has been said by persons conversant with the cotton trade in Manchester , in a circular which they addressed to the wholesale houses in London , that while the sale of cotton exported , profitably or not , has increased during the last year , the sale of these goods for domestic uses had decreased at the rate of 3 , 000 balesper week . They therefore conclude—and the conclusion is a natural one , and borne out by all the other evidence on the subject— -that the want of means in the labouring classes to purchase clothing and other articles
as well as food , has been the cause of the diminished consumption—that so maoh greater part of the earnings of the labouring classes than hitherto have during the last two or three years gone in the purchase of bread . Now , this ttitement is supported by all those who have communicated with the labouring portions of the community , and by their own statements in various parts of the country . I myself presented a petition tonight , from persons who , though sometimes able to pro * cure some bread , were unable to consume sugar at all ; and , with respect to other articles , that the coriaimption of them was greatly diminished . Well , then , if you had a free admission of foreign corn , one of the consequences would be that the numerous classeB able to purchase food at a cheaper rate would be
enabled to consume manufactures ; and another conse * queuce would be that the manufacturers would find a better market for their goods , and that they would send these goods in exebanee for the goods sent to this country . Therefore ; whilst I do not say that the whole of the distress is caused by the Cora Laws , oi would / be totally removed by the repeal of those laws , I do say thst they tend to aggravate the distress , and that you would mitigate that distress by a relaxation of those laws— - ( hear , and cheers . ) The Right Hon . Gentieman supposes us to be in a position similar to what haa oecuwed at other times in manufacturing districts when distress was as he thinks ' , occasioned partly by over-production , and partly by other causes . The Right Hon . Gentleman supposes that
over-production ; the operation of joint stock banks , and some other causes contributed in different degrees , and that all the remedy ia in the reduction cf the excess , arid a return to the former state of flings , and the former amount of production . Now that is not the view which I take of the present state of things . Although it may be that the production of goods , has been somewhat in excess , ytt if that had been the cause of the distress , the distress would have passed away , andthe evil would have cured itself —( hear , hear . ) The Right Hon . Baronet thinks that par t of the evil is in the excessive building of houses in the manufacturing towns , and the consequent increase of the population ; arid that another part is in the improvement of machinery . Sir , I cannot say whether the first may be in some part a cause of distress ; but I say that with r > gard to machinery , the whole history of our
manufactures directly contradicts his opinion—( bear . ) Whereever improvements have taken place in machinery , and means have been formed ef lessening the amount of human labour necessary to produce an article , new markets have bren created or increased —( hear , hear )—and thus the whole number of persons employed has been increased at the same time and not diminished - —( hear , hear . ) And what is the case of those great towns , such as Manchester , Leeds , Macclesfleld , arid Birmingham ?—( hear , bear . ) They increase year after year , bs the ingenuity of our country men from time to time adds improvement to machinery—( hear , hear , hear . ) If the improvement ef machinery decreased employment , the case would have been the other way , and population would have decreased in those towns-Sir R- PiEL made some observations which were not heard in the gallery .
Lord JOHN RuSSEtL—Sir , I certainly did think the Right Hon . Baronet gave in , in some degree , to the opinion that machinery decreases employment . It is an opinion which has been stated by several : who support his views of this question , and I think it is very dangerous . ( Loud cries of "Hear , hear . " ) I thought that he mentioned the improvement of machinery as amongst the causes of the distress . But I believe that machinery would increase still more , and go on increasing , if you did but encourage freedom instead of imposing new restrictions . A great portion of the people think that some relief m * y be obtained by repealing those laws . If you cannot repeal them totally , as the great majority of the petitioners to this House again&i the Corn Laws demand , I do advise you to make some
material advance—i . bear , hear)—and shew that yon are willing to meet their wishes , as far as is consistenk with other interests—( hear , hear ;) I advise you to make some material advance that will shew you have sympathy with the sufferings of the peopk ^ hear , hear . ) I agree , Sir , that it is perfectly hope that any good , or . that any alleviation whatever of the general distress which prevails in the country , can ariae from that measure , which is only made to look a little better than the old measure—( cheers)—a measure which perpetuates the vicious principles already existing—forbids any improvement—encourages speculation , and prevents your commerce with the north of Europe , the Black Sea , and the United States . . Such a measure , Sir , will do nothing to relieve the distress
of this country . Whatever you do , I advise yon not to agree to such a measure as that . If you think tbat the Corn Laws are founded on sound principles—that they tend to promote the interests of the country , do not mind the sinister evils they may cause , but if you do make a change , do so for some purpose ; do not innovate without you innovate for some good purpose—( cheers . ) Lord Bacon said that the fro ward retention of custom was Bometimes as bad as inrioyatlon—but Lord Bacon never dreamed that there might be a measure of this kind proposed—a measure which would have all the evils of "froward retention pfcustoin , " and yet contains within it all the mischiefs or evils of innovation—( hear , hear . ) A measure which does not improve your commerce ; and , therefore ,
cannot alleviate the existing Btate of distress—a measure which confines your trade , and which was proposed by the Government having first excited hopes fer a long period—hopes , which when apparently on the point of being attained , a measute is proposed in reality standing upon the very same principles and producing similar results as those of the present law—( hear , hear . ) Such a measure , Sir , I consider is that now proposed . I cannot think you will legislate en this question to any purpose , unless you in the first place reject the , measure now proposed—( hear , hear , and loud cheers . ) If you reject that , you may hereafter consider to what extent you may set free your trade in matters of food . You may hereafter consider how far you will concede to the wishes of the
people—it will be : open to you to take every view that may be proposed to you to consider . You may consider the agricultural interests and the quantity , of land brought into cultivation . ; Yon may also consider the burthens which affect agriculture ; and I wish to say here , Sir , that if there be any odium la advocating the impoeition of a duty—from that odium I do not wish in the slightest degree to shrink —( hear , hear . ) If you adopt the system now proposed , though I do not believe that in the present civilised state of the people of England , you will not have such tumults and outrages as have taken place in former centuries ; yet I apprehend that you will produce growing discontent in the publio mind . Ac * , therefore , so that it shall be said that you have legislated on well considered views , and for the benefit of the whole community . But I desire
now to impress the fact upon you , that all commercial men and all indifferent spectators have unanimously condemned the sliding-acale as the worst basis of legislation with respect to provisions , and that it is perfectly well known to the community at large tLat this principle bat been thus generally condemned . How can you believe that the public can be persuaded after such denunciations that the proprietors of land alone can . take impartial views on this subject ; that they who are chiefly interested should , contrary to the experience of all mankind , take clear and disinterested views on the present occasion ?—( hear , hear . ) The people will not so reason . They will , I appreherid , attribute , however unjustly , that you have been biassed ia favour of those interests with which you are connected , and in favour of a system under which some members of the Government are said to have increased their incomes of late . ( Laughter and hear , hear . )
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Anything would be better than legislation of this kind . Be it error , if you will enact laws which may savour of the Ignorance of the 15 th and 16 th centuries on mattew of trade , and you may sustain the odium arising in consequence . But if yon allow it to be said that the Parliament of this country—that the House of Commons have decided the questionin which the food of the whole community is involved on a partial basis , and to maintain your own advantages , it will be impossible but that the Legislature shall suffer in the estimation of their country—( cheers . ) Such , Sir , being the views I take in the present crisis , 1 only hope that you may come to that decision on this question which will show that you have large and enlightened intentions with respect to the future state of trade arid commerce —( cheers )—tbat
you have considered agricultural , as well as all other interests , and tbat having 86 considered , you will pass » Jaw / which , when it is passed , men will look on as a blessing to the country , and will thank yon with gratitude and fervoar in their hearts as wise and berieficient legislators—( cheers . ) That such may be your decision I mos + eordtally wish , but I cannot think that you can legislate thus unless you proceed upon principles entirely different from those submitted to you on Wednesday nicht I therefore beg to move " that this House , considering the evils which have been caused by the present Corn Laws , and especially by the fluctuations of the graduated or sliding scale , is not prepared to adopt the measure of her Majesty ' s Government which is founded upon the same principle , and is likely to be attended by similar results . " ' .- ¦ : ' . ..- ' .
Mr . Gladstone said , ttie real question was , not which side of the House could collect the greatest array of prejudice and passion in its support ; but whether , looking to what is practically best , the House ought , under all the considerations involved in the subject , to accept the proposal of his Right Hon . Friend ( Sir R . Peel , ) or adopt that proposed last year by the Noble Lord . Now he was prepared to contend that the evils -attributed to the existing Com Law were to be attributed to that law only in a limited degree , and he should further contend that the evils themselves were very much exaggerated . He further contended that the advantages of a fixed duty were grossly exaggerated , and that the objections which attached to such a duty on its own merits were perfectly insuperable . The
sliding scale was said to have been chargeable with the evil of leading to serve fluctuations in price , but similar fluctuations bad taken place in countries where no such law prevailed . The Hon . Gentleman i qnoted . theprices of rye in Prussia at different periods , in order to support this view of the . case i rye being in Prnssda used as the general food of the people in about the same proportion as wheat was used in England . This , he said , proved that the : fluctuations were to be attributed to the difficulty of adjusting the ^^ supply to the demand , rather than . ; to any inhetent evil in the law . The Hon . Gentleman then went on to show that at 64 ? : the Noble Lord and Sir R . Peel would , like great planets , be in conjunction as far as respected duty , but as the Noble Lord would sot reduce his 8 f . duty to
Is . until it reached 73 s . or 74 s ., surely his plan held out far more temptations than tbat of his Right Bob . iFriend to tamper with the averages ; for his Right Hoc . Friend ' s proposal was to reduce gradually and not suddenly , like that of the Noble Lord . As to considering the 208 . duty a prohibitory one , he bad to remind the House that that duty was only levied when the price afc home indicated ; an abundant supply in the home markets , at which time any material supply of foreign corn would be prejudicial , arid if this were to be considered a prohibitory duty , he ; must say that he sincerely hoped that we should be always blest with such a One . Since the year 1704 , there had always been a maximum duty of 20 * on the importation of foreign com , and in the course of that time there was a period of thirty years
which was triumphantly referred to by the advocates of a repeal of the Corn Laws as one during the whole of which' a free trade in corn practically prevailed . Ifc was true that a free trade practically did prevail during that period , but nevertheless the maximum duty of 20 s . was also in force the whole time . It was said that if we took the corn of other countries they would take pur manufactures in return . Of thia he would not have Hon . Gentleman to be too certain . How stood the case with Russia ? Was it because we wohld not take Russian produce that Russia would riot take our manufactures ? The fact waa this—we
exported to Russia to the value of two millions per annual , arid we imported from that ountry over six millions in value . In addition to this Russia had recently published a new tariff , by which additional restrictions were placed upon the importation into that country of British produce , which shewed that other conntries were much more favourable to an limitation of as in our former restrictive Bystem , than likely to follow us in our modern system of relaxing those restrictions . The Hon . Gentleman concluded by vindicating the measure of the Government as a great imprevement of the present Corn Law , and , therefore , gave to it his hearty and Conscientious support —( hear , hear . ) ' . " ¦ ¦ "' . ¦ ;
Mr . C . Wood said , it was out of the question to pretend to say that we should not be dependent on foreign nations for corn , when , for the lost ten years the produce of the country was insufficient to supply its population , and when it was evident that the evil must inerease with every future year . We must therefore be dependent in a great measure upon foreign supply , and the only question was as to the way in which that supply could be obtained with the least possible injury to any class of . the community . The Hon . Gentleman then entered into a lengthened argument , interspersed ^ with several calculations , in order to show that a fixed duty was preferable to a sliding scale Mr . Liddell said as for ai his experience went he believed the measure proposed by the Government would gratify Hot only the agriculturists , but also a great portion of the manufacturing and commercial interests . It had never been asserted on the Ministerial side of the House that this couatry could be
maintained wholly independent of foreign supply ; but it had been held that in a good average harvest the country could nearly supply itself with . food , and when it could not do so , the system of Averages enabled them to , obtain a sufficient supply without risking the prosperity of the agricultural classes of society . They knew from experience that they had little to expect from concession . When Catholic emancipation was granted in the most liberal manner , it was said that the reason of granting so liberal a measure was that it might give the fullest satisfaction . It gave satisfaction , however , but for a short time . Again , in the case of the Reform Bill , it was said in defence of the extent to which it went , that the people would not be satisfied with less . What was the result ? The Noble Lord who brought it forward had subsequently more trouble to defend his " finality" than he ever had to upset the rotten boroughs . For the sake of conciliation , therefore , they should not depart from that which was sound in principle . ' .: ;' " ' ' . ' . ;¦ . ¦'' .- ¦'¦ . ' " . ' . ¦ ¦ - ¦ ¦ ¦'• ¦'' : ¦ , - .- ¦ ¦ . •' . •'¦• . .. ' " ¦ . ¦¦ ' " . . ' : -v :
Dr . Bo wring said that the inferences drawn from bis accounts of the consumption of the necessaries of life In Prussia ,: by the Right Hon . Baronet ( Sir R » Peel ) were erroneous ; but even , if true , and if there was a greater consumption per head i& England , that was no reason why it should be reduced . The fact was , however , that the condition of the people of England was , year after year , becoming worse , while in Prussia the condition of the inhabitants was progressively improving . He would prefer the scale suggested by Mr . ChriBtopher to that proposed by the Government , 'for under the latter plan we could never have corn admitted in any quantity except under very rare circumstances , and concluded by a warning to the landed interests not to deal too harshly by the people , who paid more in proportion to their means than the landed proprietors to the support of the expencesof the state . ' ¦ . " ¦ '"• - ¦ " ¦'¦¦'¦ ¦ . ; ;' : : ' ' . " . ¦ : ' ' : '¦
Mr . FJER » AND ;( amid loud cries of " divide , divide" ) said that in rising to address the House he felt that he had awful responsibility to discharge , and tinder which he wait placed . He bad been requested by the working classes of the north of England to come down to this House and defend them from the persecution of their oppressors . In the last session of Parliament he had risfn in his place here on behalf of the working classes of this conntry , and he had been granted a patient hearing . He hoped he should receive the same treatment at their hands to-night , and he would not only , on the part of himself , but also that of the working claasea , feel very grateful to ^^ them— - ( hear , hear . ) It wai his lot , from his youth , to reside in the middle of a Hianufacturing district ; and one of
the proudest acts of his life was to respond to the call which they had made spon him to stand forth in their behalf , and endaavour to burst asunder the bonds of their oppressors— - ( hear , hear . ) The manufactures with whom he had the honour of being acquainted denied the allegations which were contained in the petitions which were placed upon the table ^ - ( heaT , bear , and cheers . ) The working classes of the north of England assert that they had never been applied to , in the mass , to agree to those petitions . They say that these petitions were an absolute fraud upon them , as well as a decided insult to the good sense of this House—( cheers . ) They assert that the signatures to those petitions were obtained by the foulest . means possible—rthey were obtained iy making a mere mockery of religion
—( hear , hear , arid cheers . ) And the anti . -Oorn Law League manufacturers have exacted the signatures of the working people with such threatenings , and such oppression , as are an outrage upon the liberty ot the subject—( cheers and laughter . ) Before he craved the notice of this House , he ; would allude to the Noble Lord , the Member for the city of London , who ha « asserted within the walls of this House , that this *»* a question which it was the duty of tbe country to ¦ decide , and not the legislature . He ( Mr . Ferran ^ thought that the Noble Lord had himself appealed to the country ; and here was his aruwer—( great cheerins :- } He ( the Noble Lord ) had appealed to the country t « the fixed drity project , and the Right Hon . Baronet
( Sir R . Peel ) had appealed to the country upon tb « sliding scale —( cheers . ) It was true that the Noble Lord had taken his seat backed by a majority of nine and these , it was said , were dead men —( laug hter ) , but the . Right Hen . Baronet had taken his seat in the House backed by a majority of ninety-one living representatives of the people —( cheers and langhter . ) Pe * - haps the Noble Lord , boiling with rage Under the ignominy of his defeat , might aBsert tbat that majority was obtained by fifty different false statements . But what said Lord Morpeth when he started in Leeds ? In that place , lest there should be any mistake between her Majesty ' s Government then and the Right Hon . Baroneti the First Lord of the Treasury , Lord Morpetb { Continued in our seventh page . )
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Northern Star (1837-1852), Feb. 19, 1842, page 6, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse2.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct742/page/6/
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