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3?mp^nal 93arltanuiii
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HOUSE OF LORDS- , 1 /» 7 ufay , June 11 . X-rd Desman moved the second reading of the AfSniiution BilL Bis object in this measure -was to givfe ret . ef to those Christians ^ ho literally interpret the command , " Swear no * at all , " and irho conscientioc 5 iy act on their convictions ; and to enable them to furfber the ends of jo . rii » by giving their evidence . ¦ Vfith- » ct violating their conscientious feelings . ; Id ? E ^ rl cf Wicklow oppo sed the bill , being more fiisv-vitti to support & measure for the abrogation of oatts tix ^ aetber .
The Bishop of I . OSDOS felt himself in a difficulty . He ies ^ --ct > - -vl tLe ceiiScWntious temples of the personi for ™; -, ose relief the bill "was biuu . ht forward ,, and " * r& = s- ^ itc tbat , amongst other ir . star . sts of hardship , there ¦? . as the case of a di ^ unprifitied member of the bar viii > had foregone the eniolunicnis of cfiice rather thin v . u-Jite his convictions by taking the oaths required .- Believing that the entire subject mutt be deal : -w th legislatively at no distent period , he ¦ w cuH abstain from either supporting or opposing the pre . -. nt LilL In tee course of the further debate , lord Abingeb pro : ~ r * -d again * : the case of the Quakers being taken as a ; : rrivder . t ; be found them , as witnesses , exceedinci . -lE-nltto manage , as they never gave a direct an- ¦* er 1 > bx-. y question . 1 r j-i Btvugharu snd Di-nxaan defended the Qoiicrs fro :.- it- * iisputauona of Lord A Ding ^ r .
C- ' tsiig ; e&uon from tfreBithup cf London-, -svtich Wt js s-ijiu-.-ite-l by the Loid Cl ^ uc ^ lior , tLs bill . ¦« us irii ~ . it ^ tvu , on the miders " anting 1 ! at the entire - > -ubjee : L > t .. > be referred to a seh cc curiiiuittee . with a Tiew to *¦ ¦ . * ne future legislative pr-jcfctdmgs .
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betrayed when it placed c « nfidenee in the Government , "when —( cheers , and cries of " Oh , oh ! " during the remainder of the Eestence ) . He cared not for friend or foe . but would speak his opinions boldly . Tie Government had been raised to power by the d « eprooted hatrttl which the people bore to the New Poor Xaw . It was the detestation of that law which placed the Conservative candidates at the head of the poll . It was to raise their voices against that law that they weie returned to that house , and ha stood there to perform the duty for which he had been Bent . Tbe Noble Lord opposite last year introduced his BUI , and took his stand upon it . What was the constquenee ? The country , when the general election came , told the Noble Lord that they would not ba 7 e his bill nor him either .
This only carried out the argument of the Hon . Baronet , the Member for Waterford , who said that the Government had obtained their majority in that House by the agitation of th : s question . What vras the difference between the Hon . Gentleman and himself ? The Hen . Gentleman , he believed , agitated for the B . t ? ptal of the "Union—he ( Mr . Ferrand ) agitated for the repeal of tbe Poor Law . Tbe Bight Hon . Member for the county cf Coik albo agitated fur the Repeal cf the Union , but he ( . Mr . Ferrand ) believcd they would carry the repeal of the Poor Law before the Right Hon . Gentleman carried the Reptal of the Union . He ( Mr . Ferrand / would tew cali the attention of the House to sc-rne itaterueEts in Mr . Mott ' s report He found that Mr . Mutt said , " I regnt to have to report to yonr board that the proceedings of the guardians are very in
un ^ -iti-factory ; sb ^ rt , tht-y are ett'rely at variance with the provisions of the law aud the directions oi your beard . " He ( Mr . Ferranci ) begged leave to assure the House that the EJ 3 rd of Guardians of the Keighley Ui . ior . had b ^ eu earrjics on the whole of their proecHMne * . sitee he himfce ' if attended the board , according to the tiri-iss directions of the Cfc ! uu > issh > ner 8 of S ' ~ > ni-jrset-hou = e . This was directly contrary to the &i ; egsi : ons of the Commissioners iheraselves . He held in h : s hard Iht report of the P , or Liw Commissioners for 1 SZ 9 . The following passages de * criUdthe « tate of the unions in Lancashire and the northern districts , and ibs manner in -Khich tbe ) a-v "svas carried tut : — " We are enabled to tLite j ; ei ; erally , in reference to these unions , tL . it Ihe boards of guardians are proceeding satisfactorily in the administratkn of relief ** ****
The same observations r > pp " y to many of the unions in tfee West Ridirg of Yo : k , which have been lonsest in rperation . * * * The guardians are authorised to put the law into ODprition » i > der and snVj ^ ct to the provisions of the 13 , 1 E ; Zibfclh , c 1 , ithe ohi law ) , and are , in fact , a larger vt . rt . ry , befcre whom tbe cas ' .-s of the retractive paupers axe investigated on their own persona ! application or from the report of the re laving officers , wfciise duty it is to a iminiater the relitf ordered b , r iho board , and t ~ i : quire iistc- t ' -e situati » n of the psuptrB making application , acd ; he board of tunrdiaDS have reason to btlicYe that the n-al wants and necessities of : he poor are more promptly attended to
and iciieved than under the old law . " He bested the particular attention of tbe House to these ^ tracts , ¦ which "vsvuld sh ^ -uw lbs system by which the V ^ -oi Law CuBinnssioneis gulled tbe pubr . c , sending assistantoc-ramis ^ i < -ners up and down tbt ; country to ( Hceive the Hcu * e and tbe Government . He would take the liberty of reading an extract from the report of Sir J . Walfchasii , relative to the Kvitnley Union , which would confirm what he had stated relative to the inaccuracy of Mr . Mo' . t ' s rtrpurt : — " The expenditure on i . s poor , acd principally , I t » Ke i :, on its non-settled poor , has more than doubled itself since the declaration of the Unirn in February , 1837 ; a glance at the subjoined table will at once show this to be the case : —
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( Average quar r te ;) y F-xpen- Expenditure ! ¦ N ames of diturB for tht for the Increase Towi ^ hips . TLiee Yaars Quiirter tnd- per ending Marcl in ? Maich Cent . 25 , 1 S 37 . 25 , 18 i 2 . 1 . Bicrfey 2 S 6 COS 333 2 . Haworth 238 4 K 9 110 3 . Keighley £ o 3 7 G 7 ! Ill 4 . Morton 74 If 2 j 38 5- SLfctton 43 75 J 74 6 . Sutton 87 160 i 84 Totvi * 1 091 2 269 l ll ' S
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An increase of 10 s per Ctn » -. indicatts , print ! facia , a loose and imp&rftct acminislration , aud it ca'ii-fcit me , therefore , no surprise to bear that out-door relief and EOE-reaident relief m aid of wa ^ ts , given almost wholly in moncy and without requiric ^ work in return , was th « system on which th * board of guardians cf tbe Kei ^ hly Union had been proceeding . But it is some satisfaction to add , tfnt not only did the iuardnns seeni fully aware and wflnng to admit teat such systtin was uisr . zznd , acd ought to be clitcied , but tb » -y wtre lurtKivoTiring to make arr-irsifn . ents with tbe surveyors of tb . e highways in "ie stveral townships f ' r providing woikfor . the able-bodied . I am not . however , prepared to suy that , these arrangements will be adequate to thtir purpose , or to the requisitions of the cut-door
isbour test reccntiy sSiUcd to tbe Keishly Union ; slilJ thty jr . volvs a movement in tbe richt direction , and as tb > guardians disposed ( so as least it struck me ) of the ¦ busiE > -ss h < fore them in a business like ma ner , 1 am i . ot inclined to iugur UEfavcurably of their future proat-uines as wcarsis a more sjsttniatjc and correct di . =-tr . ? uiii > n of out-relief . " One great cause of the increase of tfce rates , apparent en the face ef tbe extract he had read , was the biingicg ruch numbers if men from tbe southern and other aEriculturai districts irito the manufacturing parishes of Lancashire . It was a fact that soiue of these mtu were now receiving from the parishes whence they had been transported thirteen pounds a year in aid of wages . If any improvement had bten made in the wotting of the
law he ( Mr . Ferrand ) would say that it vas owin ? entirely to the extrtions of its uncompromising and determined opponent , and of the boards of guardians , wbe had tten obliged to set the commissioner * at StSaice , end act contrary to their directionp . Tbal was owing Eiyely to tbe arbitrary , unconi'titutioEal , monstrous , inhuman , un-Christian , un-Ei ) gl * . sh orders wliich the latter cccaiioBrJly issued . Were such men , he would ask , to be intrustei with the administration of " tbe workhouse tes : ? He now cuime to tbe clese of Mr . Moll ' s report ; and -what -svonld the Ricbt Hon . B ' iicDtf say whtn he heard what was tLere stated ?—" Without proper workhonse accommodation 1 am afraid that other restraints upon the guardians wouid be . but of little avail . As theaudifcors are now elected .
the . r services in many unions are but of little use , and no beneficial check can be expected through them . I have Teptatwi ! y ventured to state to your board , and all recent experience has confirmed tLe opinion 1 have before expressed , that even as a precautionary meiiuro , in tie manu f acturing districts , where the poor-rates , ue : U rtc ^ tiy , have bfrfrn comparatively light , the proviHcns of the New Poor Law are loudly called for ; : icd that un ' ess the Poor Law Commissioners are empowered by the Legislature to enfcice tLe provitiou f < . r proper workhouse accommodation to aid ibe " rcttraint upon relief to able-bodied pinpers , there is nothing to prevent tht * preisure of the poorrit-s-ia the maiiufacturiDg districts from Incoming ten times mor « ruinous in their consequence anrt mows
dangerous to tbe public welfare than those which were unhnppily witnessed in the Esricultural districts of the s > u : 1 j ot England . " Now , be would ,-uk the Right Hon . GentierD ^ u "wtat tind of po 6 rhou * eB thfy were soing to erect ? Tbe feeling in that diftrict was most detenuined in opposition this measure . Tbe people in tbe no . ftb of England were unaninious almost to a man against it —( bear , hear . ) This indeed was no party que . -tion , for if it were did they thick he would stan < 1 up in that House and express his opinions to the injury of the Government ?—( hear , bea . ) But tb& question thty had to decide was whether the northern parts of England should be completely ruined , tbe working classes there be made determined haters of tbe institutions of their country , and tfce men ot property be
rna ( Je to feel that every principle of the constitution had bfctn . violated . Tbe Right Hoc . Gentleman kDew it was impossible to carry out the orders that were issued ; tbe commissioners knew it too , and yet , in spite of the state in which the union of Keighley was , they issued the directory orders to which he had » : luded . He had no hesitation then in saying that the commissioners were more anxious to preserve their places and their pay tbaii to care for the public welfare . Had tbe people of this country become so degraded from evtiy principle ibat actuated their ancestors , tbat three Poor Liw commissioners at Somerset-bonse were rendered nvcessaiy for piovidinc for the poor ? He challenged the Richt Hon . Griu ' tnjan tt » prove a > icgle
instance , under tbe old iaw , of a ratej . tytr in tbe Keigbiey Union , of any paTty , who was even actuated by one unkiad feeling towards the poor , or who e- ; er it > riot bis dnty to them . He was now Chairman of the . GuaraiaUB of that Union , and a short time since , wbeu he found those prremptury orders ha 1 bren sent Covrn . as Chairman of the Botird , and as a maRi-trate , he officially c ^ inmunicattd to the Rit ; ht Hon . Gaitfe-D . aTi , teat if those orders were carried out , he felt convinced a breach of the prac < 3 w ^ u : d take place . What was the ans-tfer of the R " -gbt Hon . Baronet , the Secretary of State for \ h » Home Department—the guardian of the poor of the country ? That ht could not interfere J —; hear j Bat he wou ! d ask the Right Hon . Bart whether he had not acted as tbe Cuairm&n of a Board
j of Gaardians and as a magistrate of Cumberland ? Did . he allow any Poor Law Commissioners to interfere I with him ? Did he allow them to step in with their authority ? No . Then let the same motives which i actuated the Right Hon . Baronet as Chairman of a : Board of Guardians in Cumberland beattribnUsd to him ; in his position as Chairman of the Kfcighley Union—\ I bear . ) He held in his hand an extract from a speech of | the Right Hon . Gsntleman on the 20 th of July , 1839 , j and he could assure the Right Hon . Gentleman tbat i " Hansard" had been a great comfort to fr < m since he J had had the interview with him— ( a laugh . ) The Righi i Hon . Gentleman said tbe other night that he possessed j considerable influence in Cumberland . [ Sir J . Graham . i intimated that he had not and so . ] The Right Hon . Bart said that he had considerable property there , and property generally gave influence ; but st any rate he wished that he had more . ( "Hear , " and a laugh . ) j The speech which be was about to quote was made j when Lord J . Russell moved the order of the day for ] going into committee on the Poor Law Bill ; and the 1 Right Hon . Gentleman then aaid , — When ttie Com-
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missioners of Semerset-house came practically to consider the prudence of carrying out this regulation ( the refusal of out-door relief ) , the inquiries they made , and the experience they had acquired , taught them the impossibility of giving general effect , to the law . Uniformity was desirable , This rule , prohibiting the administration of out-door relief , so far frem being general throughout England , was , he must Bay , somewhat capriciously applied . It was applied to certain unions in the south , but in the north the rule was Dot in operation . In Cumberland , in the union of which lie was chairman , they were bound by no such regulation . An ample discretion was left them ; they were not fettered in the least ; and if they had not been left to the exercise of this unfettered discretion , he was bound to say ,
he should not have held himself responsible during the last winter for the conduct of that union . " He said it was monstrous , it was most unjust , that three Poor Law Commissioners , so grossly ignorant as he bad preved . these men to be , should make those orders , which , if carried out , must reduce this country to a state of anarchy and confusion—increase the enormous rates which he had brought before tho House—which must turn the aged and infirm out of their homes , and carry out the la > our test amongst a population of 50 000 peisons , who had now ecaiosly the means of getting a single day ' s employmtnt But let him ask the Right HonouraMe Baronet this—Were those orders issued by the Poor Law Commissioneis for the purpose of tearing from their homes persons of seventy ,
eighty , and ninety years of age , who were , to a certain fitent , relieved by the feelings of charity which imbued the breaU of their poor neighbours—that when a slight assistance from the board of guardians or ratepayers would enable them to be carried from the hearth on which they sat to their final resting place in the church-yard , they were to be dragged to a union workhouse , in defiance of every feeling which the laws of this country had raised witfain tht-m , until the people wtre taught to regard a woikhouse as a prison ?—( hear . ) Was it not monstrous that the commissioners should bavx issued those orders at that very moment in theKtighley Union , thai , when carried out , and they must be if it were possible , would tear the aged and infirm from their peaceful homes , no longer to
enjoy their evening walk by the mountain's side or in the shaded lanes , but to be immured within prison walls , to have every feeling dit > regarued , and to be imp isoned in a union workhousu ? He wouid t ' . 'll the R-gnt Hon . Member and the country tl : at the people would not submit to it—( hear , hear . ) He would tell the Right Hon . Gentleman that they would not submit to it iu Cumberland ; they would not submit to it in Yorkshire—( hear . ) He would tell him that the same spirit which actuated the board of guardians o / er which he presided would actuate every man who had any feeling for tbe poor—( hear , hear . ) He would , for a moment , allude to what ha considered an extraordinary circumstance ; and that was , that when the Noble Lord , the member for London , on tbe 21 st of
July , 1840 , moved the third reading of tho New Poor Liw Commission Continuance Bill , there were absent the following members of . the present Government , — Sir R . Peel . Sir J Graham , Lorci Stanley , SirF . Pollock , and Sir w . Follett That was an extraordinary circumutance ; but tnav very circumstance waa the cause of hundreds of votes being given for the supporters of the Government at the last election . —! hear , hear , hear . ) He himself then said to his constituents , " Trust in the Conservatives ; you hav « tried the Whigs for ten years , and they have given you the New Poor Law and measures tliat bave been to your gre > tt injury . " Their answer was , " Yes ; but Sir R . Ptel will not say anything at all . " ( ' Hear , ' and a Jaugh . ) He replied , " Trust to him ; Le does not promise
everything and perform m-lhing ; but he promises nothing , and will perform everything . " ( Great laughter . ) But what said the Right Hon . Baronet at the head of the Government on tbe 8 th of February , on the bill of th < a Noble Lord the Member for London , t <> continue the Poor Law Commission for ten years ? " He said— "It was necessary for him to state , however , tbat in voting for the second reading , be reserved to himself the fullest right of judging of the propriety or of rejecting any of the clauses , and of dissenting from any provisions by which the power of the present law was to be i : creaBed or amended . He doubted particularly the propriety of continuing the commission fur so long a tima . He did not nitan to say , that after an experience of a further continuance for a abort period he
might not come to thu conclusion that the powers given by the present law should still exist , * and that the ccntinuance of the commissioners might not be advantageeus . or tbat be might xi * t rieim such further continuance advisable ; but it would , in his opiuion be more consonant to the opinion of the country that the subject shruld again , at a short period , come necessarily under tbe consideration of the House . " "Then , " said tbe people , " Lord J . Russell proposed a continuance of the i-ill for t n yearB , Sir R . Peel only proposes it for five , and afterwards we shall come down to no yt .-ats a . H . " \ Laugbter ) HuwtTOt , the Right Hon . Baiontt appealed to public opinion , and long before he did so . he told the people tLat the battle of the
constitution was to be fcught in the registration couits . Now , tbe great argument of the persunB who conducted those courts in the North of England was that thU particular law was contrary to the constitution . iHear . ) Public opinion then carried the Ri ^ ht Hon . Baronet into pnwer . He wcuU ask him what was public opinion now in the North of Engjatd ? iHear . ) It was almost unanimous in opposition to this Bill —( Hear , hear . ) And he would Ull tLe Righ ; Hon . Barontt that if he c ? -rrisd this law into the North of England , his GoTurniutnt would not exist two years—( hear , hear . ) He believed that that would be the case . Was the K'ght Hon . Baronet aware of the state of public feeling in the north of Enclaad wherever this law bail beeu introduced ? Was
he aware , too , that thut feeling w . ; s increasing rapidly in the south , of England?—( hear , hear . ) Because it saved the public pockets to a small amount , it was said to work weil . He should be veiy glad to bear what the Hon . and L .-iirned Member for Bath weuld say upon the su ^ jtct . It was said by soniti—- " Oh ! it works well in our neighbourhood : —leave well alone . " But how had it Worked well ? By saving the money of the rattpsyer —( hear . ) It was entirely opposed to the constitution of this country , and that he meant to show , if it were ailoired—as he hoped it would not be—to go to a third reading—( hear , hear . ) Was theRitht Hon . Baronet :. ware tkat the
Conservative press of the country was almost universally against him upon this subjtct ? Was ho aware that the daily press was takiDg np this question , and must work its way through public opinion ?—( bear / . Was he aware that the weekly press was taking it up , and must shake him in bis position ? ( Hear , hear . ) Because , if be were not , he could tell him that it was so , and that no Government could stand long under such circumstances . ( Hear . ) He wculd give him two years to destroy the public feeling which had been raited in his favour . ( Hear . ) He . could net resist public opinion , and the opinion of the press of this country ; and he must ultimately yield to it . ( Hear . ) He wished now to have a few words with the Right Han . Baronet the Secretary f ^ r the Homo Department . The Right Hon . Barojict
had , the other evening , in rather , he must say , a warm manner , attacked him for using what he termed violent means for exciting an opposition to this measure ( as we understood ) . He plainly confessed that since this law pa 3 std he . had taken a determined and firm stand upon this question ; he bad addressed a public meeting of guardians , and toid them , that by every constitutional means in his power he weuld resist the lueasuro ; but at the same time he preached to tut-m in the best manner Le could tbe necessity of obedience to the laws . Was it right for the Right Hon . Baronet to attack him for that ? The Right Hon . Baronet forgot that he himself had lived in a glass house . ( Htar , and laughter . ) He must remember that he was a mtmbtr of the Reform Ministry . How did the Government ut
that time inflame the minds of the people ? Was it not a fact that they were in correspondence with the men who said that there were thousands ready to inarch to London for the purpose of cramming the Reform Bill down the threats of the people ? And did not tbe Government give tkem their thanks ? ( Cheers . ) "We never refused , ( said the Hon . Gentleman ) to pay our rates in support of the poor of this country ; we never have excited the people to attack the Monarch while passing through the streets of Vbts Mbtropolis ; nay , we have never advised the monarch , for the puTpO 83 of carrying a measure , to swamp one branch of the Legislature . ( Hear . ) We nevur have attempted to bully the House of Peers .- nor bave we advised a circular te be written to one brauch of the Legislature asking them
to forget their duty to themselves and to their country . ( Hear , hear . ) No ; I tell the Ri ^ ht Hon . Baronet I stand upon firmer ground . I appeal to the Constitution of the country , aud taking my stund under the banner of that Constitution , come weal or come woe , I will fight the battle of the people . ( Hear . ) [ Sir R . Peel here rose and . left the Hjusb ] The Right Hon . Baronet has gone a minute too goon . lLaughter . ) For what did the Right Hon . Gsntleman say in the debate that took place on this subject Msreh 19 th , 1841 ? He said , "He should consider the large powers entrusted to them , and , baring devolved those powers , the greater they were the more jeaUmy inuit Pj . r , iwuent exorcise with respect to their application , and the greater thb readiness with which they mus ; listen to any a . legationa
of abuse . While he consented to tho prolonged duration of tbe commission [ or five years , he must say that he wished the commissioners would watch the expressions they made use of with a little more circumspection . He thought that with the best intentions there was occasionally a harshness displayed in the vindication of certain principles which might be avoided consistently with the maintenance of the law , and the avoidance of which would tend to fortify the powers of the commissioners . To give an illustration of this , he would take for instance an official circular published by the Poor Law Commissioners , one of those public
documents directed by the board to be printed chiefly for the use of the guardians . In one of those papers he found the following expressions : — 'One principal object of a compulsory provision for the relief of destitution is the prevention of almsgiving . ' Why , he heard tha Noble Lord ( J . Russell ) himself state that the Poor Lavl would completely fail in effect if tbe affluent withheld their alias . That was perfectly true ; and he should abominate the Poor Law if he thought it relieved the rich from the duty of almsgiving . He was perfectly Certain the Poor Law would fail if the affluent relying upon its provisions alone , however improved the system of administration might be , felt that the moral obligation on them to attend to the wants of their poorer neighbours were
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thereby extinguished . " What , he would ask ( proceeded the Hon . member ) had become ef almsgiving ? What was the > f * sult of ^^ the ^ Queen's letter ( or > collection tot the distressed manufacturers ? Why , the New Poor Law had dried up the springs of charity —( hear ) and the poor were to become prisoners , and wear a prison dress—men who had committed no other crime than taking advantage of thei neglett of duty of their superiors , and to choose as their means of existence the poor-rates of the parish , which were given to them by their superiors under the old lav * . If the rich forgot their duty—if they broke the law- ^ -if the magistrates , who were the guardians and prote'bfors . cf . 'tbe lawiof this country , forgot their duty in the south of England , could they wonder that the poor man forgot his duty
too 1—( hear , hear . ) Htv cared » of who the man was who had not rather live in ease than earn his bread by the sweat of his brow . Providtnce had ordained that they ( the Members of the House of Commons ) should not earn their bread by the sweat of their brow ; but it through His beneficence He had placed in the hands of certain parts , of the population of ; this country the means of existing without such labour , depend upon it they would hare to give a true account of their stewardship—( bear . ) He had that night given his reasons for opposing the continuance of the powers of the commission . In the majority of the Government there would be some who were generally their opponents , but whe advocated this measure ; but he would beg from
the opponents of the Government their votes upon this occasion . Tile Right Hon . Baronet , might find on those ( the Ministerial ) benches Borne who would find it difficult to explain away their votes to their constituents —( hear , hear ) v-and who would stand by him in fighting this battle against the .. Constitution of their country ; but the time would come when old English feelings would return—when they would ask themselves whether they bad performed their duty as members of society ? and whether they would stand by a Minister of the Crown , whatever his political opinions might be , who was disposed to defer to the opinions of a few against the feelings of a vast majority of the country ? —( hear / . ;
Colonel Wood ( Middlesex ) said he hoped the measure would be taken into the immediate consideration of tbe House . He must say that he thought the New Per Law was a very great advantage to the poor , and it had materially added to their comforts . Mr . Wortley would give his vote with the Hon . Member for Finsbury , in the present state of the question before the House . Mr . Wakley said that the next election the gaHant Colonel ( Wood ) would be defeated in consequence of his advocacy of this-measure * and Honourable Gentlemen should be very guarded in their actions . There would be great difficulty in pre »«? rviDg the peace of the country . There were hungry thousands now , but Boon there would be hungry millions ! Is such a law
calculated to preserve the' peace of th « country ? He hoped the Hon . Barouet did not think so . Considering th * awful prospect which tbe state of the country presented ; he was willing to vote for the continuance p £ the present Jnw for one y » ar longer . Tliia was a question of vital importance , involving the welfare and happiness of niyriads of the people ; and he hoped the Right Hon . Baronet would take the matter into his most serious consideration . He would ask this question—Are we legislating with a conviction that the poor of this country have a right to relief ? The Hon . Member for Bath denies it . Now , he would say that his ( the Hon . Member ' s ) mind is so constituted that he is not fit to legislate for the -popri it had been complained of by a commissioner , that " paupers
Insolently , claim relief as a righL I" Now , if you admitted this , who could be responsible for starving them . Now , if there was nothing else than thiSj he wquld Tote against the continuance of the commissioners for six years , unless a man who had dared to make such a statement , was discharged . He quoted details from Mr . Mott ' s report , to prove tbe existence of monstrous and scandalous abuses in the present system . The House may be assured ( he said ) that t ' ha existing distress is dreadful ! Hundreds of poor traversing tbe counrty in all directions , sleeping in the bands , and sheds ; and they said they would rather die than go into the
union workhouses . ' It was impossible that the bill could be disposed of this session , and lie would recommend ( though . unwillingly ; its continuance for one year . Sir T . Cochhane contended that relief afforded to the people should be such as would be" agreeable to them . He wished to know whether they considered it as a boon ? and he regretted to say that he thought it was not the case . Much bad beeu-said about the abuses of the old law ; but this was a poor argument in favour of the imperfections of tho new on « i He thought that the poer should be taught habits of industry and sobriety . H « should vote against the resolution .
Mr . Roebuck referred to the conduct of tbe former government . When the measure was first brought before the House , it was considered one of great danger to the country ; retribution was now coming upon them ; for they had lwade use of vulgar passions and prejudices to endeavour to oust people . The law gave to the poor that right which they soughfc He w « s not to be assailed by deciamation , but he would admit tbat it was a general benefit , and therefore just- The aged poor were provided for by the law . He was not , however ,
very fond of the commission . The poor should be maintained iu such a manner as should preserve industrious habits , and not foster idle ones . The question was , how we should provide for the destitution which prevailed ; and , at the same time check habits of idleness ? He would give tho relief ; because it waato the interest of the community that it should be given . The principle of the Poor Law should be , that it should discourage the impositions of the designing and idle , and , at the same time , afford relief to those who were really destitute .
Sir K . Peel hoped that in the progress of the New Poor Law bill no factious opposition would be offered to it . The general opinion of the country , be contended , was favourable to the measure , and the proof of this ha found in the insignificant number of petitions which hatl been presented to the House against it . The Hon . Gentleman Who had spoken last wished to know why he ( Sir R . Peel ) bad not influenced the party who followed him more in favour of ttie measure than they were . He confessed that he did not think the gentlemen of England were so easy drilled into au opinion . ( Ironical cheers from the opposition I He Baw no reason why he should fxert his censorship over Honourable G ^ ntiemen who sat on hia aide at ' the House With regard to this question , he did not think that he
had power to do so . The Noble Lord opposite had not been more successful in this particular than himsfclf . With reBpect to the use Tuade Of the cry against the Poor Law last election by gentlemen on this side of the House , he could only say that he should be ashamed of his place if he thought that he bad gained power by such means . He had never for a moment given bis sanction to such a course of proceeding ; on the contrary , he had taken opportunities of stating his concordance with the priuciple- * of that hill . In tho general election of 1837 , be stated on the hustings his conviction ( f its ju .-tice , and that he would give it his cordial support . In the election of 1841 , be gave his support to the Government on every becassion on which it was brought forwml . HV was surprised at
the ignorance of some Hon Members as to the degree in which the enactments of Elizabeth are diepart * d from iu the present measure . It was .-Weil to . look at these enactments by way of fotHiiujf a comparison between them and tbe present law . In these enactments be saw no recognition of a right to relief without giving labour for it . If such had beea tbe case , there would have bewi an end to society ( bear * hear . ) It was not so , however ; so little was the principle recognised of an indefeasible right to relief on the part of the poor , that they even required the children , to be apprenticed to some handicraft . There was no difference in principle iu the existing law aud the old one of Elizabeth . The existing law was a great check upon local abusv . He ( Sir R . P . ) hoped they would not wish to return to
the old system—they were asked to trust to the good English feeling and all that stuff . The Right Hon . Bart , then read some abstraets from Mr . Mott ' 8 report of the Kei « hley Union—a union which had long resisted the influence oif the poor law . A Union of which the Hon . Member for Knafesborougb . was the chairman , and which ho had si . oken so highly of . Mr . Mott ' s letter unfulde some of the most frightful scenes of immorality and vice in that very Union . How would that union contrast with those which were under the management of the new poor law ? He thought the Hon . Member forKnaresboroush would have been belt jr employed in remedying those abuses which should have come under his eye , in his capacity as chairman , than in " babbling of green fields . "
Mr . Ferrand said , as bis conduct had beeu animadverted upon b > the Right Hon . Baronet , he should -say a few Words iu explanation . If the all ^ -atious in Mr . Mott ' s report were correct and capable of proof , they were worthy of serious con- ' iitJeration . But he believed that th © guardian-of the K ^^ bVey Unionwouid . be able to clear themselves of the aspersions heaped upon them . Lokd Howick said that no time , so much as the present , required the greatest caution in the management ot' tho disf . ributi « i of relief , when the country was in such a state that the rates had increased in a frightful degree . The sources from which relief flowed were growing more scant , while the recipients were hourly on the increase . He thouaht in such
a state of things , there was the greatest necessity of a cautious and economical system of relief , such as that practised by the commissioners . Nothing would be niore productive of additionar misery to the country than a relaxed administration of the poor law . He di = i not entertain the idea that the Right Hon . Baronet could be expected to be answerable for every speech made by bis side of the house . But he did think it strange that bis ( Sir R . Peel ' s ) influence was not greater with those who were nearly connected with him . 'He thought the Right Hou . Baronet could not take credit for himself for having discourajjed the vulgar outcry against the New Poor Law at the last election , tie should , however , support the Bill . :
Sir E . Knatchbuix said he rose to give an answer to some imputations thrown out against him by iho Noble Lord who had just spoken . It had been imputed to him that he was inconsistent in supporting a measure now which he had formerly opposed . He begged to say the Noble Lord was in error . He
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had alSW 8 given his opinion in favour of the general principle of the Poor Law ; like other members , he had views of his own ag to the details . After a few words from Mr . Dabby and Captain Pollard * '¦ • ¦ . ¦ . - ' . „ Mr . O'CoKNJBtL said he agreed with the motion of the Hon . Member for JFinsbury . He did so , however , more with re 3 peot to Ireland , in which country the Poor Law was a new scheme . He had frum the first been oppoeed to that soberae , as irreconcilable to the feelings of the people of Ireland . He had prophesied ibat commotions would follow the introduction of this system , and he was only afra'd those prophesies were working themselves out . He feared that a revolt would be produced by that measure , more terrible in its results than anything that they had ever before seen in that unhappy oounlry .
Lord Elliot said he must rise to defend the Poor Law Commissioners of Ireland against the attacks of the Hon . Member for Cork . They had followed up their labours in a spirit cf candour and earnestness , and , as far as the experiment of the poor law had been tried in that country- ^ it had been perfectly Bucceesful . They had few able-bodied men in their workhouses , but these were not the kind of persons they Wished to havo , but the lame and the inprm . His lordship concluded by complimenting Mr . O'Connell for tho forbearance lie had shown in not opposing what he did not agree with . MrVCobden said they lost sight of what was the real motion to night . The Hon . Member for Finsbury had spoken of the awful state of the country , but the Government had not thout ; ht fit to put asi e
ono n ' . ght to discuss some measure for that relief . The Right Hon . Baronet had premised to " gwe his pill when he had got his fee "— had he given those remedial measures ? the distress had increased progressively every month since the Hon . Baronet came into office , and it was their rimy to take it into consideration ; but he apprehended the session was too far advanced for thit purpose . The mariufscturera had contributed largely ( o the rt-lief of the poor , for one had subscribed £ 300 . The Hon . Gpntleman concluded a very eloquent speech by an afftcting appeal to the House in behaU ' of the poor people in the , northern districts , now suffering the most appalling distress and )> riva . tioi . p .
Mr . Crawford ross amidst loud cries of " Divido , divide / ' Ho said tnore were large districts whore the people were starving . The poor houses had not the means of relieving tho poor . A well-irffulated poor law would give relief , but the present had not produced tho effect . General Johnson supported the motion of the Hon Member for Finsbury . ( Divide divide . ) Mr . Fielden moved , au adjournment of tho debate . After a few words from Mr . Fkrrand , Col . Sjbthorpe and Mr . Wakley , Tub House divided , when there appeared—For the adjournment , ' 29 ; . Against it , 297 . The House resumed , when SiK . C . Napier moved an adjournment of tho House
Sir B . Peel said a great deal of time was lost in divisions ; but , if it suited the couveuiuice of the Hou 8 e , he should propose that this question ( the Poor Law ) bo adjourned till Monday next , which would necessarily eause the postponement of the new tariff . Mb , Duncombe said a few words in reply , and after a few observations from several Honourable Members , the debate was adjourned till Monday . . On the third reading of the Railway Bill , Sir H . Hardingk moved a clause providing that officers and soldiers travelhni , by railway sha ) l witJi their baggage , &c , be conveyed at the usual hours of starting , at prices contracwd for by the eecreiary . at ; - war , on production of a note signed by the proper authorities . After some discussion the clause was agreed to , and the bill was passed .
The Mines and Collieries Bill was brought up and received , with amendments . The other orders of the day were then disposed of , and the House adjourned , at a quarter past two o clock .
ohday , June 27 . Mr . Roebuck brought up a special report from the Election Compromises Committee , stating that Mr Walter , wbo had been summoned , refused to att nd , and give evidence . The main ground on vphich Mr . Walter refused was , the expression used by Mr . Roebuck , during the last sssion of Parliament , whrh on his being a ' . tacked in the Times , he had recunini » nded the horsewhipping of ilr . Walter , its chief proprietor . The House ordered tbe attendance of Mr . Walter , and then some conversation arose on the subject of the inquiry befory the Election Goffipromises Committee being conducted with closed d « ors .
Mr . KOEiii / 'CK stated thut the committee had come to a unanimous resolution that the inquiry would be best comlucted in that manner , though they did not dispute the right of any Member of the House being present . The proceedings were ordered to be printed with the votea for the use of members only ; The adjourned debates on the Poor Law Amendiuei t Biil was resumed by Mr , FiELDEy , who rose to answer the speeehes of the Hon . Member fur Bath ( Mr . Kuebuck ) and the Ritfht Hon . Baronet the Member f > r Turn worth . He would take that ef the Hon . Member for Bath first . That Hon . Member had spoken with great confidence on the auf ject of the New Poor Law , hut in his ( Mr . Fielden ' fi ) opinion with little sense . He ( Mr . Fielden )
doubted the Hon . Member ' s experience of the labouring poor . He wanted te know what means ho » ha
always employed great numbers of hands , and for some years past they had constantly in their employment some thousands ; and , so long as he had a seat in that House , he would by speech and vote resist a law which was based upon the false and wicked assertion that the labouring people of Enal . ind , or any material part of them , were inclined to irtlbnens aud vice ; and h" 5 felt that he owed them too much to sit patiently by while this commission was proposed to be continued . Ho believed that the New Poor Law had betn most oppressive , and that it . waa founded en the most fallacious principles . The Hon . Member for B : ithspoke first of the new law being both wiBe and humane ; and he told the House that , being a lawyer , he wished to be answered by facts . As to the humanity of the law , be
( Mr . Fielden ) would give one fact , and he begged to be understood as giving one fact of ni : iny that he could produce . In 1836 there lived in the parish of JEversholt , in the Woburn Union , a widow of the name of Susan D ^ acorf . She had been relieved by the parish before ttie Union waa formed , but . as the new law came into operation , her allowance was reduced down as leiw an 18 . a-week . In ttie night of the 25 th of December in that year that poor woman threw herself into a moat in the garden of the rector of the parish , a Kuardian of the union , It was a bitter cold ni ^ ht , and the weather ifrosty . Her body brtike turough the ice , and when taken out , it was found that -the must have risen from her . bed to drown herself , aa she was dressed in her night clothes . The coroner ' s jury
wished to return a verdict , stating the circumstances that caused her to drownherself—that was , the refusal of the hoard of guardians to grant her the accustomed relief ; but the coroner persuaded them to return a verdict of insanity . The j ury , however , immediately after , being touched with sympathy for a poor and respected neigh > bour , wgneA ami circulated this paper * of which he ( Mr . Fielden ) had a copy : — "We , the undersigned jurymen on the body of Mrs . Deacon , of Hill'H-end , Eversbolt » who drowned herself in the Rev . J . Heed ' s moat , on last Monday morning , through distress of mind , in consequence of having been refused a shilling p « r week by the s » id J . Keed and the other guardians of the poor for Erersholt parish , have given our verdict 'Insane ; ' and , " out of compassion and respect to
the deceased , in order to prevent her goods from being taken f roin her orphans to defray the funeral txpences , have contributed 6 dT each towards burning her . The ainailest contribution from any person who can feel for such a casa will be most thankfully received by the jurymen . Should there be more collected than will pay her funeral expences , it will be given to her poor children . ' He ( Mr . Fielden ) had offered to prove this ease before tha Poor Law Committee , but Was frustrated . Mr . Bull had attempted to get it btfore a committee ef-the Lords , but he had also been frustrated . The paper , however , circulated by the jurynien speke for itself ; and be ( Mr . Fieiaen ) adduced that one case as a . specimen of the humanity of the new law . Thy Hon . Member then spoke of the
" problem how to relieve the honest able-bodied without giving encouragement to idleness by relieving the id Je vagabend . " ; He said that " the Reformed . Parliament had looked tbiB . difficulty in the face , " and that "he wished it to be particularly shown bdw the difficulties of tbia question would bo met , except by imposing such restrictions on the administration of relief aa would make its reception not more agreeable than the exercise of hohest industry . " He ( Mr . Fielden ) maintained , first , that the Parliament had not met the difficulty in the face , but had created a board of three commissioners to do so , or to do as they liked . The
Parliament had proposed to it a bill abolishing outdoor relief after the SIst of July , 1835 ; but it expunged that part of the bill , and left it to the commisaionArs to make the law . But , as the Hon . Member praised the law and the commissioners and their doings , he might be taken to approve of the prohibitory order for stopping out-deor relief to all able-bodied poor unless in the workhouse , and of the regulations and discipline which they had ordered to be observed in the workhouses . The Hon . Member , in fact , approved of the workhouse test , the " self-acting teat , " as the commissioners called it , which was to sift the honest and bard-working man from the idle vagabond . Let him ,
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then , examine the practical operation of that test , for lie ( Mr . Fielden ) believed it to be a moat atrocious cruelty on the ho iest and willing workman , and productive of infinite mischief to the counfciy . He would take the two eases supposed by the Hon . Member himself . '¦; Here were two applicants for relief , both coming to the board of gnardians at the Mime time : both have families , both are able-bodied ; but one Is an honest hard-working man , who cannot get work ; the other is an vagabond , who will not work if he can help it . What does the board do ? It could not « nve anything but the workhouse test and its dieclpline , its separation ; and its diet to both . It must give tha same to both ; Now would come the operation of sifting , and the proof of the sound principle and
prl-Iosophy of the new law , Which ef the two would go into the house ? , If both go in , then the law punishwj the honest man just as it did the vagabond . If th * huneat man went in , and the idle vagabond was driven » . o li . aintain himself , then the honest man only vna punished . If the vagabond went in and submitted to thtv discipline of the workhouse for the sake of idleness , tben he would ask where did the honest and willing worknmivgo to—the man who Was admitted to be honest , the man who would do work if he could get it ? Ho ( Mr . Fielden ) would ask whither had you driven that man ? He would tell them , in a table published by the comm'ssipners in the stxlh annual report , there wus a column containing the number of vaurants and paupers relieved not belonging to any parish in ttie union ,
and it gave the numbers m Christmas quarter , 1838 , and in the same quarter , 1839 , from fourteen counties in England ana Wales ; the total showed that in 1838 \ here were 1 , 70 . 5 vagrants or casual poor , arid in 1839 no loss than 3 , 111 , being an Increase of 1 , 406 . or 82 per cent . The artmirafele system had . driven the wiiling worknian to become a wanderer in search of work ; and , failing in tbat ;' it had made him , whose virtue was confessed , a vagrant gathering alms in the qnality of casual poor , i hat was the wisdom and the philosophy of this law . But it Was the idle vagabond that the Hon . Member fer Bath wished to punish . Very well ; the Hon . Member , being a lawyer , knew doubt-Jess that there was the Vain-ant Act in force when th 8
New Poor Law was passed , and in force still , by whicli all vagabonds Were amply punished . Aye , but that law would not meet the whole mass of the able- , bodied . No ; nor should it . Another assertion of the Hon . Member for Bath was , that the outcry iigainst the new law waa not raised by the honest and industrious poor , but by self-interested persons of a di « - honest sort , who had been destroyed by the operation of the new law . He ( Mr . Fielden } ¦ would now read to the House a shoirt paper that had beeti written by a labouring man of , he believed , the DIas Union , in Norfolk , and printed at the expence of one of the Guardians , and which had been sent to him ( Mr . Fielden ) by a clergyman residing in the Union . It was as follows : —
"POOR LAW AMENDMENT ACT . ' Since the New Poor Law , the honeBt , industrioua abla-bodied puor are much oppressed , through theory era Of ' the Poor Law Coiinnisiiioners . It frequently happens from severity Of the weather , that the farmer is unable to find fcrnpIoyHieni ; the poor man , under such circumstances , having a large family ; is rendered totally unab e to support them honestly ; and when he appeals to the Guardians , all the relief he Can get is to leave big house and little furniturtJ , and be midea prisoner in the Union Workhouse . I therefore think that the Board of
Guardians ought to be empowered to relieve tbe poor man without , forcing faitn from bis house and home till tho- farmer may be enabled to employ him , and the wtatber will permit him to wprk . I , Thomas Cock , can prove that during the last two months I have lost half my time , therefore take the liberty to inform the public that the parishes of Bressingham and Fersfield inttuil to send a petition to Governmentj and earaestly hope tb * t other parishes will do the same , praying that the industrious poor may be relieved without being sent to the workhouse .
'• " Thomas Cock , " Labourer , Bressingham , Feb . 9 , 1841 . " Now , he ( Mr . Fi « lden ) thought that simple statement not only proved that the Honouralle Member for Bath knew nothing of the feelings of the honest labonring poor on this question ; but that he waa wholly uninformed upon the subject on which he so confidently talked . He would now come to the speech of the Itisht Hon . Bart . the aieniber for Tamworth , who had said that he thought the people of this country were in favour of the coiniiiissipners , ; because he found , that leaving out the petition of the 3 , 000 , 000 , there had been only 108 petitions that session against the comliiiasioners , Bigned by 25 OOOVnames , Now , the fact was , according to the sommlttee of petitions , that up to the 10 th-of June there were that session 135 petitions
against the new law and the bill before the house , containing 36 , 344 siRnatures , and there had been many presented since , of which no report had been made The petition of the 3 , 300 , 000 required a total alteration of the constitution of that House ; and it alleged , as one of its reasons for desiring the change , that the HvU 3 e as at present constituted had passed the : unconstitutional New Poor Law . Was not that a' pretty strong expression of public feeling against the commissioners ? The 3 . , 000 not only desired to abolish the commissioners , but the very construction of the assembly which had made them . But he would call the attention of the House to the number of petitions in former . yeara > all in effect against the New Poor Law , au immense " majority for total repeal , and others for alterations which would defeat its principle . "< '¦¦
Years Petitions Persons . 1834 ... ... 172 ... ~ 10 156 1835 ... ... 16 . ... ... 15 680 ; 18 : i 6 lia ... ... 27 , 574 1 W 57 ... ... 285 ... ... 270 : 096 1838 346 ... w » 264 . 100 1 « 39 ... ... 136 ... ... 30 000 1840 ... ... 190 17 000 1841 ... ... 895 ... ... 280 616 1842 ( tolO : bJune ) 185 ... ... 36 344 To theseahould be added the two national petitions , tco first" with upwards of 1 , 250 , 000 signatures , and the second with 3 ., 300 , 000 . Now , the petitions in favour of the new law , or somewhat in favour of it , Were— . ' ' ¦ ¦
Yeare . Petitions . Persona 1834 2 ... ... 1 ( J 1835 0 ... ... 0 1836 0 0 1837 ... ... 35 950 1838 ... ... 23 1 , 184 1839 0 O 1840 0 ... ... 0 1841 ... ... 72 ... ... 467 1842 rto June 10 ] 0 ... ... 0
He thought that was an answer to the Right Hon . Barontt as to the pub ic feeling on the whole of this law , and-it was also an answer to the Right Hon . Home Secretary as to the , direct remedy' generally deuianded upon the publication of the . report of the Poor Liw Commission of Inquiry in 1834 . He wonld now go to other parts of the Right Hon . Baronet ' s speech . He said , " Do you speak of this bill as depriving th ? poor of any of the advantages which they enjoyed mider the law of Elizabeth ?'' Tes , he , did . The law at JSlizabeth made the oyerseers set the ablebodied poor on work , and it made them buy materials for the purpose . Under that law the overseers had no authority to imprison and Beperate them , man from wift , and parent from chiW . as a condition , of giving them
that work . The . fltii < if George I . gave the overseers r-iuthority to administer relief only in a workhouse . The 36 th of George III . repealed this law , stating in its preamble that much hardship had been iiifl . cted on poor persons by withholding relief unless they would go into a workhouss . Then came the New Poor Law , and the Parlianient hot being bold enough to re-enact the £ > th of George I . enacts that Poor Law Comluissionera shall have authority «« to declare to what txteut relief shall be given to able-bodied parsons out of the workhouses , " aud that they 8 hall have power to niuke rules for the governing of those workhouses , which was , in fact , committing the able-bodied poor oF tha kingdom to the Will of thtt Beard . He did say that that hid deprived the poof of advantages
that tUey had under the 43 d of Elizabeth ; and , if the RiKht Hon . Baronet meant to contend that that the new law was the same in principle as the 43 d of Elizabeth , ht him remind the Right Hon . Gentleman that L * rd Broiigham , in bringing the new law into the House of Lords in 1834 ; spoke of the 43 d of Elizabeth as that " accursed law . " not a phrase likely to be used by one who was proposing a law similar in principle . The Riiiht Hon . Baronet had referred to the mismanagement of the poor in the Keighley Union , taking the information of a Poor Law Gomniissipnt-r , and he argued that these things could not be redressed if we had not tbe cunimisaioners . But had not the Right Hon . Baronet hrarit of Worse things occurring under the Poor Law Commissioners themselves ? Had he never heard
of the horrible deaths at Bridgewater ? Of the-fatal gruel of the Cofiim / ssionera ? And did not the Commissioners do everything in their power to stifle inquiry and hide the facts from the public ? What did they do at Sevenoaks , which was under the inspection ef one of tfeir own .. assistants ? Remeniber the . swollen throats of the children , the treatment of the lyinz-in women ^ -a tale so harrowing and disgusting that one scarcely liked to dwell upon the detail . Then again inquiry was forced on the Commissioners , and the greatest attempts were made to ; stifle it . Yet the Right Hon . Baronet appeared to look on the Commissioners aa a Board whose duty it was to drag to light ' .:. s ' iid- '\ M op to public riew the illtreatment of the poor wtieheTer it might occur
That was new ground—quite a new function ; but he quoted the Commissioners' reports from the Keighley Union , and asked how these things were to be , brought to light but by the commiaBieneTs ! His ( Mr . Fielden's ) answer was , the Bridgewater and Sevenoaks cases were brought to light , not by the commissioners , but in spite of them , and that if the commsssion were abolished to-morrow , the same good feeling and natural abhorrence of cruelty which held up Bridgewater and Sevenoaks to public gaza would bring to light such cases as that of Keighley , supposing it all to be true . But if the Right Honu Baronet was ; very anxious that the cases of hardship in managing the poor should be brought to light , weuld be now insist on bringing fully to light that which he ( Mr . Fieldenj believed would develope a tale or folly ( Continued in our Seventh , Paae . )
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HOUSE OF COMilO . NS , Friday , June 24 . p . : ; ti > ca "srere presented airaui ^ t the preser . t STitrin of v >" . iu ^ = . l c- ' ucation iii liclaiia , a ^ Mts ' . ihe Pour \ rif < GoTi- ^' aar . ce Bi . l , aiid for a tetter sys * . eni for the . regulati 'U <¦ ¦ ' . medieil chaiitie « in lrt ' . anci . O ^ tr .- ,- motion for £ oiug into cunan-. iitee on the Poer 3 j 3-- ? Airendment Bill being read . 3 ; r- LaVi'sox moved , that it be an instmction to the con . nrl ' . tte that they Lave po »« . r t ^ divide the bill int -. wo parts .
2 ! -r : i don having been seconded , E-: r J . GE . AHAM said , it woul-j i . c-t be necessary for hir . . j Jitiin tie House -t any ^ tES ' -h in ovposing the mot : n . He introducea tnis ffivasart on tte 4 lh of ilay , am- ii-iij of the clauses wrre < x . i . iidered in the last Ees >" .- ; ¦ .. The Hon . Grniirnian Eai'i " ce"bad no oi jectiun to ;'_< ii ^ . i five ciausfea . ¦ which , in Ir . s cpiuioi ) , "Wtre ^ he mo ?; i . i .- .-extant in tbe hill . He consiCtxtd theTuotion of T .-. ^ H-. e . Member us ^ -ess and suprifiuous , and , therefore , hx . hoped the Hcnse woj'J proceed to consider the Biji ; .-: ' ¦ n : u ? iti £ e .
_ C ^ : ' -.-in P £ CHELL mpporfe'd the motion for dividing the P ^ -t La ^ Biil into two j-. aJts-Dr f"T > "RI > "G > aid it couhi l- t He denied tut that gi * : vi - ' . i ; sr . s existed under ifce o ! a P » yr Law Biil , and tber ^ r-r < r he voted f » T tat t > . l , -wjiich had fur its Object the - ^ t- ' -dsEent of that law . ^ VbeiQtr the new measure bid -s-ised "well , it-was ftr tfc- Hcu « e to consider—( httx . Certainly cases cf i . ffl ut . on and fcufftiiug had talrn pls . ee lately , "vrhich w-. rt a . dlsarace to a civil ; sh ! Coui . Lry—iheari—and the ir-qu-. ry -ahich had taken plnce "Was -. !" . sitifetictory to « rv va ^ j . He ¦ wUL ^ . d Uiis iuiporciii BJ 1 to be tborougiJj tiiicas--ed in evtry stage , and hs — ould not avail binn-. t of the ttclin : cal forms of lbs H < - -u- « e to oppose the Bill . He -wou ^ d nut offer anj f ..-::,-tis opposition . K = - - v-Co > ' > ei . l should Vv . a- T » iib the government on the prr ^ --nt occasion- Kb « a ? atcidediy cf opinion ths : ihia impartint iceas-irc cutiit to te in one Bill ; it c ^ iht not to t > e GJ ^ idctJ .
31 r . FiEl-DEX Ea 5 d , he belicT ^ this bill o ught not to v - find , therefore , he shuuivi oppose it in tvery ¦ ws y vhrfttrma of the Hcuk : oli .-wed . He should vote for the runcEdment wliich had been propr-std . t t H . PT . Bahko > " cocs ; d * -rc ; i tbe Jfew Poor Xa"sv Biil the mtat bentficia ! n = ea ; ure ever passed ty the Lttf . ^ lature , and when its proy . sions ^ -ere thoroughly ¦ nnctrii-.-od and fully carrird out . tile ct-unrry would thins a = he did . It wcuid prc-vt a benefit to both pour ^ - : d Tich—ihfar . i It « i « 'he cry Lf tttnsa ] war on tfcr la ; t : ngs at the las : ^ c' -ion against the Poor Xaws iri tlie Corn Xaws tt-nt plated the picst-tt yi-ir- > : ^ rj of the GoTHumtai in Uie s : i-ii » tii . iis they Eow 2-A—hear . ) He MtVoui-a to ^ u ¦ JpOIt the b 31 , but be u uld not snpport th ^ ir « tn > rii policy . iii- G ; ijisditch waa of opiai-n do benefit eculd be der : r-a 07 diviairg the hiii mi < 3 fvo parts , thertfore he nu-t oppose the murioi ; .
Aitc-r a few -words from General Jon > sox ( cnes Of " D . ridf , divide . ") 3 ir . L ^ wsos * aid he -w .-. Ad cat trouble the House to civla-i , he wouid withdraw h ; e mt-ron . Jj : t . i :: s "yithdiaTm . Oi . tha motion b ? ng again put tbat the Speaker do leave t . -. t-tairj ilr . I . S . Dc > "C 0 MEE rcs = &&& Eic ^ td the following reso' - 'ir ^^ .-i : —
" This . consideriEg the distTtWt-d state cf the comrcsrcLij' and industrious classes of this country , tosether wfth : be advanc = d p-. riod tf the jesrfon , and the prtii-nt stite of pnblic busictSi ; . ccupV .-d wiih the ' . ' act that tbe Paor Law C ^ mmhsiun sx ^ ires on the cist of t ! , e erruing month , it is the opsi . icn of this Hc-ass ftat tht-re is not now reffinent t : a ::- to enable P-irlia-Eient to £ iTe that attention and dt-iibrratiun io the imports : oiianges in the la'srs f .- < r tfce adrainistrafcon " of relief U' tie poor , "vrhieh the Dif-a > i-re 5 rtraduced by her Maj-styv Ministers impera-ively runands ; zjhi that it "Bou ? d "fccTtfore be more e 2 pet 5 i * -r .:, tbat measures pf a ttii-jrjrary character shi > ula be adopted , to meet any inc- ovenience -which th « txp'ring provirioiis of existii . ^ l ^ wa for the relief of the p&or may be deemed to rtonire . "
The H ; , n Member conttnded that this importsnt Bill con ; d r ^ t be properly and patiifattorily considtred finrL : ^ lie preser . t sesiion of P ^ r : ! amtEt- The * xistiE 2 Bill rsvired on the 31 st of July , and rhere ' ore ft temporary rr . tiasure cnght to be ictro .-cccd , and the questions rtir-ecting the same fuljy znd ca ' mly disenssed in the n ^ s- session cf P ^ iamtEt . H = did rot thini that any « v > ; action would be raised to c- > ntinnine the present Bili f-r another year , but in the present s ^ te of public buj-inc " - * = bvy ongtt not to be cshed upon to pass a pertt >«) t- — * . Act . The- BUI oncht to fea ^ e b ^ stn introduced at an fear . s-r oeriod of the Eessv . ; n .
Mr . "VVAHLACE seeondcri the mution . He eloquently erpatiEteal upon tbe apathy exMb-fed by both fciiies ot th-r H ^ uie respecting the tSiirs of the poor ; but Le "would do his duty to thfe : u , for the poor ou » tit not to br a ! owed to starve . The Puor Law did not pro-Tide for th-s destitute . He -sf ouid . tnta the assistance cf f- , .: 7 ¦! ¦ ive indiTiduals , bring the tfiair atortly befsre the H ass . S ' . r JajJES GRAHiM Edsiitted the importance cf tbe q-nes-d-u hot before the house , and he was deeply
impress < r < i -wita the diatres ? fed conamon of the "Working classes . But it "was nuw a qnestion how tfc .- >« e d . ffit"'i ! des should be mer . There "Wrre now 1 . 200 0 P 0 pers-xs Ld Eajland and Waits receiving parochial relief . X- 'W how "was this gigantic evii to be relieved ? He hid considered the question iu all its bfeari ^ ep ; and he bsd recommended * he adoption of varicas expml ' z ~ n's from time to tTm-.-. He waa quite prtparf-d io fciilcr into details ol the sa ^ s ^ nre , -w-irh 3 . view to apply s reTueQJ to Ibe ei : s \ inJt tvlls . if passible . He ¦ wouici v-1 ^ for the rovernnifeLt rofca * nre .
Yi ~ . EVHE said , that he bad always approved of this rLearara ; jet he regretted it h » -d not answered the purp > ir for vphich it had been brought f . < rvrard . He thought it "srould bs expedient to pass a bill of a tvaiporarj nature for one or two j ears ; fir Parliament had jKis ^ e' 3 a bil l to prevent tbe poor man from working ! ( H « r . bar- ! Tbe poor want to-work , buthtr Majesty ' s ministers "will not let them have it . ' Had they not pa «? > the corn laws , which deprive them of wort ? They do not "want charity . 1 st tbe Bouse remove Te-trct ^ T . s on trade . OH-ntlerr-t-n may say Uo . no , "
but tbe time "waB at hand "wl en tht-y would be cdiepelU-i to comply . Iitt the Bitiit Hon . Baronet consider t ! iat in a few months those countries -which depended upon our commerce "would be iD-Vpccdent of us . He rej-vuted , that free trade in corn und provisions , and notLictr cl ? e , irould give eaiplu ; . nient 'o tbe poor man . They cculd not have the poor law sun the corn law toettber ; for society "wcula tien be diviiied into classes r— tLe Tery rich , and tbe very poor . The poor "were degraded and trampled upoa ; and tte time was approaching "when the rich tLirHVilfes "would suffer .
Mr . LlDDEVL "Wished that her jiajcitj ' s ruinisttTS ¦ wcui J limit the present feUi to the Em five clauses . By " this measure the Gilbert Unions acil the district psup * j schools "would not be t < -u : btti . He maintained thai the measure "wou : d ni-t afibra the sma ; lfcst £ . dai : ioual relief ; ard the removal of restrictions on traoc would only ager ^ v ^ i-c the tviL L-ird JuHX KrssELL said , ths number of poor ¦ wouU be very CGcsidtriibit :, ¦ whatever miglit he the fate - ! the corn laws ; and it "woujd still be requisite ; to CiaTij a good system cl jvoot laws ; and no change of the corn laws could n . ake it expedient to put np "snth a bad or injudicious syctrin of poor law administration . Upon those grounds he opposed the motion . Col .-. nel Wood was of opuuon that thehonse should interfere , aknd not allow the out-door relief to be administered by capricious cemmissioners .
Mr . Fxrhasd iraa convinced that the Poor Law Commisiona and Assistant-Commissioners "would uphold any system -which gave them the control of the public money —( "Oh . oh ! " ) He felt it dne to himself as a number of the Keighlej Bo&rd of Guardians , u Chapman of the Board , and as a Magistrate of the county in vrhich the nnion "was established , to prove to the house and to the country , that a statement "which bad betn ms . de respecting him by a public officer , in a report now he believed on tie table of the house ,
• was a falsa and scandalous one —( " Oh , oh . ' "'; He did not spsak oa rumour , like the Hon . Member for Bath , trattiaa much stronger greundfl for the confidence "with ¦ which he made hia assertions . He "would prove from the report of Sir J . Walsham , that the statement made by Mr . 'Mott "was false . The Right Hon . Baronet , the Secretary for the Home Department made it his boast the other night that Government had not betrayed the confidence 'Which the house reposed in them , when it granted the additional day for public business-, but he ¦ would tell the Hon Baronet that the country had been
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), July 2, 1842, page 6, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse2.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct760/page/6/
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