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238 ©ft* HeatttV. [Satukday ^
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PARLIAMENT OF THE WEEK. The defeat of Mi...
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
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Another Defeat Of The Renovated Minister...
More accounts from the Cape of Good Hope bring melancholy details of the inglorious war with the Natives , in which defeat is doubly disgraceful and victory but the choice of a minor degradation . Some of the Government papers here are keeping up the cry that the colony most p * r for the war ; but England is far more responsible for it than the colony is . If the colonists had beeo left lone , they would have settled these Border questions long ago : it is the Government in Downing-street which keeps up the wars , by tampering wi * h the Natives and holding back the colonists , and it is the People of England whieh . maintains that Government in power .
238 ©Ft* Heatttv. [Satukday ^
238 © ft * HeatttV . [ Satukday ^
Parliament Of The Week. The Defeat Of Mi...
PARLIAMENT OF THE WEEK . The defeat of Ministers on Tuesday was only by a small majority , 120 to 119 ; but still it was a defeat . Lord Duncan ' s motion was to the following effect : — " Whereas it appears by returns laid before this House , and before the Select Committee of Woods , Forests , "Works , & c , that , during a period of seven years ( from 184 ' 2-3 to 1848-9 ) , the gross income derived from the possessions and land revenues of the Crown has amounted to £ 2 , 446 , 785 , and that out of this sum only £ 774 , 000 has been paid to the public account at the Exchequer ; and whereas during the same period it appears
that a sum amounting to £ 1 , 672 , 785 has been withheld for charges of collection and management , and for other expenses charged upon the said revenues , it is expedient , with a view to place the expenditure of this branch of the public service under the more immediate control of Parliament , that the gross income derived from the said revenues should hereafter be paid into the Exchequer ; and that the necessary expenses for managing and collecting the same should be voted by this House , upon estimates to be annually submitted to Parliament by her Majesty ' s Government . "
In bringing forward the motion , he was at pains to explain that he did not wish to bring any charge against any public department ; all he wished was to raise the question whether it was for the advantage of her Majesty ' s service to allow a department to collect and spend the public money without the control of Parliament . The Commissioners of Woods and Forests are responsible only to the Treasury , and the only cognizance which Parliament has of their proceedings is contained in a report annually presented to the House about the middle of the session , but not circulated among the members till September or October , when the session is fairly over . The gross rental of the property belonging to the Crown , if duly administered , would be amply sufficient for maintaining the Crown in all due diguity and splendour .
" The revenues of the Crown are derived from three sources—first , from the landed revenues , consisting of house property in different parts of London , such as in Whitehall , St . James , Regent-street , and the Tower ; landed estates in different parts of the kingdom , fines on management , & c . Over all this property there is placed that great na'ional bailiff , the Secretary for the Treasury . Now , with all due submission to the abilities of his honourable friend—yet , considering all the demands that were made upon his time , he protested against his
honourable friend—he protested against such a large property being placed at his disposal . His honourable friend in certuinly not the person whom , in hia present position , he would choose to manage his private estate—( laughter ) , —and still less is he the person to manage the estates of the Crown . His honourable friend , when asked what was the rental of the property under his care , answered , that there was no rental—none arising from the property ia Wales , Scotland , or Ireland . There are certain fee-farm rents which were committed to » hn pare of
the Commissioners of Woods , valued at £ 1000 a-year , and yet , would the House believe it that these fee-faim renta have never been collected—that they have been totully lost , and thut the account of them wu » only found after a long nearch , in a drawer of the office of Woods and Forests , after the appointment of this committee . ( Hour , hear ) . The second branch of the property con-Bints of the royal parks—St . James ' s-park , Hyde-park , the Green-park , and other parks in the metropolis . The gross income of tluse purks amounts to £ 11 , 02 ( 5 . The expenditure to £ G 4 , 729 . The third portion of the property consists of the royal forests—these are seventeen in number—the New Forest in Hampshire , contenting of 00 , 000 acres ; the Dean Fores ' , in Gloucestershire ,
consisting of 20 , 000 acres ; and many other forests , altogether amounting to about 100 , 000 acres . This part of the property ha . s been valued at two millions sterling ; and yet , on looking to the latest returns of the Coinimtinioncrs of Wooda and Forests , he found thut the income of this property nmuunled to £ 36 , 31 ) 3 , whilu the expenditure- was £ [\ G , 7 M—( hear , hear ) j—bo that the expenditure wus larger thun the income in the management of property that whh valued at two millions sterling . He saw many honourable gentlemen opposite who were intimately acquainted with the value of lund , und he would usk thorn ii it was not a monstrous thing thut property of the value of two millions should produce absolutely nothing to the national exchequer . ( Loud cries of Hear , hear' ) ?"
place her heriditary revenues at the disposal of the House of Common * , and the result of that arrangement was , that the Minister of that day came into possession of a -very useful source of patronage and favour . So w « ll was this exercised during the last century , that when Mr . Pitt instituted an inquiry into the management of the Woods and Forests in 1797 , it vras found that the annual revenues of the Cirown from that source had dwindled down to £ 5000 a-year . In consequence of that inquiry * several large portions of the property were restored to the public j but of late years , it would appear , that the whole department has again fallen into a state of gross neglect . To take the case of the royal forests , for example . Lord Duncan had paid a -visit to the New Forest during last recess , and never had he witnessed such
a state of confusion as the way in which affairs were managed there . He had been placed in communication with Mr . Reed , the deputy-surveyor , who had the management of the forest , and when he called that gentleman's attention to the fact that the lots of timber lying by the roadside did not correspond with the official catalogue , Mr . Reed referred him to the solicitor , and immediately afterwards set off to France . One of the foremen committed suicide , and another ran away ; indeed , the whole concern seemed to be in a state of confusion . Major Freeman , who had been employed to look into the management , said that a system of robbery had been going on for years . " Every one in the neighbourhood seemed to think that the forests belonged to them . " Then there was an enormous amount of
Crown revenues spent among the lawyers . The law expenses paid to the solicitors of the Woods and Forests during the seven years ending in 1848 amounted to £ 79 , 241 . This was the amount paid in London alone , besides which there were large bills paid to solicitors in Dublin and Edinburgh , and other places . In Edinburgh alone the bills amounted to £ 3000 a-year . But the most startling fact connected with the management of the Woods and Forests is that , between 1842 and 1848 , no less than £ 6 , 696 , 292 worth of the Crown property has been sold by order of the Treasury , without Parliament being made acquainted with the sales until afterwards , through the annual reports . Lord Duncan concluded by moving the resolution , which was
seconded by Mr . Hume . Lord Seymouk denied that the revenues were in . the disorderly state in which Lord Duncan had represented them , and stated the annual returns of income from 1797 to show what a large increase had taken place . He had taken great trouble to make himself master of the subject , having previously believed that there were gross abuses in this department complained of . His objection to the proposed resolution was , first , that it would be ineffective , for Parliament could not go into details of expenditure , but could do no more than lay down a broad principle , and insist on its being adhered to ; and , secondly , that it would be impossible to carry out this resolution , and at the same time to carry into effect the proposed division of the offices of Works and Woods . He therefore
moved , as an amendment , for leave to bring in a bill , of which Lord John Russell had given notice early in the session ( a bill the same as that of last year , for dividing the above offices ) , for providing for the better management of the Crown lands . Mr . Hume and Sir H . Willououby supported the motion , as did also Sir Henjamtn Halt ,. The latter suggested that the Crown lands should be treated as encumbered estates , put up to auction , and sold for the benefit of the Crown . The House having divided , the numbers
were—For the motion 120 Against it lli > Majority in favour of the motion 1 The debate on the Navy Estimates , on' Monday evening , presented no new feature . Sir T . F . Baking in moving that the number of men voted for the naval service of the year 1861-2 be < ' 5 i ) , 000 , took credit on the part of the Government for having acted with marvellous economy in the expenditure of that department . During the lust two years the estimates have undergone a reduction of £ 1 , 600 , 000 . Compared with 18155 , the naval expenditure of 1851 dhows tin increase of £ 1 , 32 ( 5 , 028 , but then we must remember that , the French nuvul estimates have increased £ 1 , 735 , 000 during that period . Mr . IIumk ridiculed the notion of increasing the number of our acumen
because ; the 1 ' rench increased their navy . In a \\\\ v discussion in the French Chamber , the reduction ' their naval expenditure was opposed on the ground of ours being so large . It was ridiculous to see two nations acting bo absurdly . He referred to the sweeping reforms which had taken place when Sir James ( jrrahuin presided over the Admirulty . Ho reduced the nuvy csthnutcb to £ 1 , 000 , 000 , and yet it was admitted thut the navy wuh in u better condition alter the reductions bad been mado than it was previously . In tho years 1835-6-7-8 the averuge number ol men was 2 !) , (> . " ! 8 , and he could not set ; any reason for having more than that number in 1861 . Then as regaids the African squadron , there wuh now an excellent opportunity for getting quit of thut costly absurdity . Tho French Uovurnmcnt and
the United Stated Government were both anxious to be relieved from their engagements , so that tne great difficulty of last year was now removed . In a digression upon the late Ministerial crisis Mr . Hume said : — « It appeared to him that Lord Stanley paid but a very poor compliment to the Protectionist party in that House when he stated that there was only one man among them fit for office . Surely of the 270 gentlemen or thereabout who the other nurbt voted for protection there must be
enough talent to fill up the Treasury bench , the more especially when it wa # borne in mind that all the real work in each department was done by the clerks , who remained stationary . ( A laugh . ) I t was not merely Mr . Punch who made a jest of their proceedings , they were the laughing-stock of all Europe , and well they might be . Who did not see , when the « Old Doctor , as Mr . Punch designated a well-known personage , was sent for , upon the remarkably judicious advice of the OldDoctoiwould direct would
noble lord , that all the ' ' be As you were' ? ( A laugh . ) There was not one improvement in any way connected with the departments with which he had to do , that the ' Old Doctor' had not done his best to stop ; for such a man , therefore , to be called in was utterly preposterous . ( ' They dtdn t send for you ! ' ) No , they didn ' t send for him ; for he had been pretty nearly as long in practice as the doctor that was sent for ( a laugh ) , had . ' paid , he believed , more attention to Dassine events for the last twenty years ( hear , near ) .
and very possibly he might have prescribed rather better than the other ' Old Doctor ' had done . ( ' Hear , hear , ' and a laugh . ) It was his opinion that the country looked upon them as a set of dolts for allowing things to go on as they had gone on during the last two or three weeks . ( Hear , hear . ) There were 658 honourable gentlemen , representatives of the people of Great Britain and Ireland , utterly incapable of coming to a decision upon great national questions one way or the other . ( Hear , hear . ) There was this miserable Papal Aggression Bill ; why , passed as it was introduced , that bill ^ would involve imminent danger of a civil war in the sister country , yet 330 or 350 members of that House had voted for it in its full extent . He trusted that the noble lord would either bring in a bill
that would satisfy the country upon the subject or give up legislation upon it altogether . ( Hear , hear . ) But , at all events , don ' t let the business of the country be at a stand still for three other weeks or more . Rather than this , much as he should deprecate anything tending to excite a ' No-Popery' cry , he should say that her Majesty had better have recourse 10 a general election . In fact , this seemed to be the only effectual remedy ; for suppose thie vote of 39 , 000 men refused , the Cabinet would cry out , ' We cannot go on . ' The House would say , You must get on . ' The Cabinet would say , We won ' t get on ; ' the Old Doctor would again be called in , there would be the same prescription as before , of 'As you were , ' and so the farce would , for the second time , be presented . ( Laughter , and cries of ' Hear , hear . ' )"
He concluded by moving that the number of seamen and marines should be reduced to 30 , 000 . Mr . Cobden supported the motion , and in doing so paid a high compliment to Sir James Graham : — " The member for Ripon—of whose administrative talents no one had a higher opinion than he entertained , for he had had the honour of sitting with that right honourable baronet upon the same committee for three y < ars , and he well knew his mastery of details and the comprehensive knowledge he displayed—( hear , hear )—had ex « rcised ^ a most useful gway at the Admiralty from 1830 to 1834 . "
Mr . Cobden condemned the entire dock-yard system as wasteful and extravagant , and quoted Lamartine , Thiers , and other French statesmen , to show that the way in which France and England act in their naval expenditure was just a game at " Beggar my neighbour , " without the slightest reason to justify it . He hoped the House would allow him , on a future occasion , to submit a motion for asking her Majesty to present a proposal with a view to prevent a
continuance of this system , and , if possible , to enter upon a system of mutual reductions . " It was inconsistent with the advanced civilization of the age thut two great nations like France and England , professing amity , should all the while be arming to the teeth , as if each expected the other to spring upon it like a wild beast . " It was folly to talk of relieving the burden of taxation by transferring it from one class to another . He saw no way of relief except by u reduction of our armed force . Lord John Ruhbki . i .,
took great pains to show that our armaments are much smaller than we ought to have . The facilities of transit , by which large bodies of troops could be rapidly moved from one point to another , placed this country much more in the position of a continental country than it was when Sir James Graham was at the head of the Admiralty . We ought to look also to our dependence on other nations for food : — " For the last , two or three years wo had hnporUd 8 , 000 , 000 or 9 , 000 , 000 quarters of grain . Let any one think what a loss it would be to this country , being < u
the practice of having purt of our food to thut amount from foreign countries—( chuera and laughter from the Protectionists )—if , in the event of war , we had no naval force . ( Renewed cheers und laughter . ) He was , therefore , of opinion thut , necessury us it wus to have a nuvul forct- to protect our trude in all former wars , a nation like ours , which allowed a free import of grain , and wuh now in tho hubit—in the practice which might continue — of importing 8 , 000 , 000 or 9 , 000 , 000 quarters of grain annually , wuh still more under the ncoetmity of muintuininga navul force . " Mr . Mu . Niai Uiiijson waa entirely at isuuo with the
He went to describe how the Crown had become pop / seflHud < of a large portion of tho land of England , ajtfanow Y « jft < lai > Kings , who had unfortunately been ' ^* Wwn » r ided ' by » set of needy courtiers , had given / wiHCY tj l * rgo po ^ Cfon of the Crown lan ds . In tho / A */ wJ # tt » f Queen Anus it wan agreed that uhc should \ N ; . > > - , . ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ *« .
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Citation
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Leader (1850-1860), March 15, 1851, page 2, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse2.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/cld_15031851/page/2/
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