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before their decision . Once Americanise the House of Commons , and they would lose more of weight and intelligence than they would gain of popular ¦ vigour by electoral districts and manhood suffrage . ( Loud cheers /) lib would go as far as Lord . John Eussell in the admission of the working man , and cared not how wide the suffrage was , provided intelligence accompanied the suffrage . In conclusion , lie warned the House that this was not a case in
which they could give to day and call back to-morrow ,. ; the popular voice was like the grave , —ifc cried , " Give , give , " " , like the grave , it never returned what it had once received . His noble friend , the Secretary for India , had stated what was the backbone , the mainspring of the bill . It was to maintain in the hands of the middle classes that power which they had exercised , so as to render liberty progressive and their institutions safe ; not to lower the franchise to the level of the working
classes ; but , on the contrary , up every citizen to the level of the class above . This was the bill of the middle classes ; it went to retain the power in the hands of that class who had hitherto exercised it so as to maintain the resources of England unimpared amidst the disasters of commerce and the calamities of war . ( Hear , hear . ) If they accepted the amendment of the noble lord the result would be to place capital and intelligence at the command of ignorant necessity and uninstructed numbers . Sir Edw ^ bd resumed his seat amidst such cheers as we scarcely remember within the walls of a ; delibcrative assembly . The shouts were renewed again and again by the whole body of Ministerialists and when d in the
for two or three minutes , yingaway noise of members leaving the Horise were raised afresh by one or two voices at the highest pitch . Me . Bitsg said , an examination of' the principles and details of the bill had convinced him of its dangerous character , as the resolution affirmed principles in wliich he concurred lie should vote for the amendment—Mr . P-hilipfs , in opposing the amendment , -said , upon the general merits of the bill he was " of opinion that a Reform Bill ought not to be brought in by a -Conservative Government , and regretted that representation was not nioreconlieeted with taxation .- —Mr * G . Forster declared his intention to vote for the amendment , which was
opposed by Mr . B . Stanhope , who also , expressed his intention to vote against the bill on account . of the provisions it contained for assimilating the county and borough franchise . —Mr . BofisoN also opposed the bill , which he considered inadequate and incomplete . —Mr . VAksittart highly approved of the ministerial measure , and recommended Lord John Bussell to withdraw his amendment . —Mr . Knjght-v i , e y consented to support the bill , though frankly owning that he objected to many of its . details . — Mr . Sidney Herbert and Mr . M . Gibson rose together , and the latter gave way . Mr . Herbert denied that the adoption of the amendment need be fatal to the bill . The Government had
themselves liberally promised to afford large opportune ties for amending the measure . He did not look upon the present motion . as designed to eject the administration , and should be sorry if such > yere its results . Examining the details of the bill , he remarked that the Conservative party , and many of the present ministers , had opposed the principle of uniformity in the county and borough franchise . That principle lie regarded as , most pernicious . He proceeded to argue against the system founded upon the representation of numbers , contending that the small boroughs sent many of the ablest members to Parliament , and furnished the best materials for ffovernments . Uniformity of the
franchise would destroy the present useful variety and happy balance , of representation , leaving the house divided between tlie members of extreme opinions * with the country , gentlemen on one side arid the demagogues on the other . As ifc was at the same time necessary to reduce the county franchise , some means must be found to presorvo a sufficient distinction between the counties and boroughs . ' 3 i \> r this purpose he should hftvo preferred a bill resembling that suggested by Mr . Henley ; but in tho absence of such a proposal , ho intended to vote for Lord John ' s amendment , as calpulated to bring about the desired object , though in a less direct manner . He wished , however , that withdra thoir bill
the Government , wing present , would themselves introduce a measure framed on the principles ho had indicated . A large majority in that house- attachod much higher importance to the construction of a good Reform Bill than to any reconstruction oP the Government j and if tho Ministry wouldpropose ( veaJfa and moderate measure , ho for ono promised th ' oin his utmost assistance in passing it . — 3 ? ho SoijccuxQK-OnNniR . Ai , observed , if ho fiakl that tlie amendment tended to confuse and embarrass tho House in the issue before it , he should only say that it accompUsliod tho end for which it was dosignod . If it meant anything , it meant that tho House should pass by the bill in order to affirm an abstract resolution on two Isolated provisions in It . IXo
traced all the principal features of the bill to measures heretofore advocated by member's who now opposed it , and referred to passages in their former $ peeches to prove the change which their opinions had undergone . The principle of uniformity was not so dangerous as the practice of perpetually disturbing the existing arrangements with proposals for further reduction of the franchise . Freely conceding that the working classes had improved o late years in fitness for the franchise , he remarked that they had also improved in material prosperity . Wages were better , work more regular , and taxes lighter ; and if the industrial community better deserved votesthey were also better able to obtain
, the privilege through the ordinary means of qualification . But although he thought the working classes fully trustworthy , and was ready to give them a fair share in the representation , lie declined to allow them to swamp the suffrages of all other classes , which must be the case if they were indiscriminately admitted to the franchise through the medium of a very low occupancy qualification . The present bill threw open the franchise in a way it was never opened before , and contained provisions , especially in the savings bank clause , offering
a participation in electoral privileges upon conditions accessible to every man of industrious and provident habits . Keverting to Lord John Russell s resolution , he maintained that while it practically cancelled the Government bill , it supplied no indication of the measure which its author would himself propose by way ; pf substitute . " Someyears ago , said Sir Hugh Cairns , " Mr . Hume proposed an abstract resolution something like that which is now before the House . Mr . Hume did not specify the extent to ' which he would go ; and what did the
right hon . baronet the member for Morpeth say on that point ? He said , " Before you take away from us the constitution that we have , at all events tell us what you are going to put in its place . " ( Ministerial cheers . ) Well , now , in like manner , I say to the noble lord , since you will not allow this bill to be read a second time , tell us what you are going to put in the place of it , ( Cheers ) . We have all seen reports of public meet jugs on this subject , and there is not a meeting of which I have seen an account which , besides the expression of opinion on the Government Reform Bill , did not not call for triennial parliaments , either manhood or household suffrage , and vote by ballot . Well , now , I want to know how the noble lord
much of all this tempting bill of fare the member for London , on his agreement with the hon . member for Birming ham , has undertaken to accept . It is only fair that we should know . What did the noble lord say years ago of the hpn . member for Birmingham , who at that , time sat for Manchester ? Why , he said this : ' ? What I have to find fault with in the hon . member for Manchester and those who agree with him is , that they are so exceedingly narrow-minded . ; ( Ministerial laughter and cheers . ) Get them upon subjects with which they are particularly conversant ,, and I listen with great admiration of their extensive knowledge and acute ability ; but when we come to discuss large
questions , such as concern the future of our empire , then I see their intellect and understanding bound up in so narrow a round that it is impossible to get them to understand those great principles on which our ancestors founded the constitution of this country , and which we , their successors , humbly admire arid endeavour to follow . " We are told now , that the noble lord and the honourable member foie Birmingham arc quite agreed ; ' not merely as to the step of a night Vhich is to dispose of a bill of this kind upon an amendment ; but as to what the consequence of that amendment must bOr- ( ioud cheers )—as tQ what must be the end of that of which this is only the beginning , I
want to know the extent of the agreement between tho noble lord and the honourable member for Birmingham ; and I think we are also entitled to ask what probability there is of the noble lord obtaining the support of those by whom he is surrounded on those points . Sir , the noble lord may depend upon it that these questions will not bo asked merely in this house , but will also bo asked in the country . ( Hear . } Tho noble lord appeals , in proof of Ins sincerity in proposing this amendment , to his well-known and long- tried attachment to the oauso of reform . ' Sir , wo ail know and , a d mire the noble lord ' s attachment to 'this question , but wo also know that there is a form of tho tender
passion winch sometimes develops itself in jealousy " or any attentions to the object of affection from any other quarter . ( Roars of laughter . ) Sir , the . people of this country have differed , and thoy will always differ about Reform J 3 } lls , about theories of representation , about soohil and domestic legislation orovory kind . But there is one subject upon which the people of this country are entirely agroed , they don ' t ) like anything ? wUich bpars the least appearance of approach to an artifice , or , If I must use a homely phrase , to * a dodge , ( Loud Ministerial ohoors . ) They don't llko it in business , and
they don ' t like it in politics ; but least-of : tll will they admire' it in a man who—at a-time when the best interests of his country at home , and her most peaceful hopes abroad , demand all -the patriotism all the candour , a . 11 the forbearance of statesmen- - ( cheers)—approaches the consideration of a great national question like this , not fairly to criticise not boldly to reject , but to contrive a crafty and ciitching device ( immense cheering from the Ministerial benches ) to confuse , and , if it may be , to dislocate parties , and amid that confusion and dislocation to secure his own political aggrandisemen t and private advantage . " ( Lond and long-continued cheers . ) After some brief explanations from Mr . J Wilson , Mr . M . Gibson moved the adjournment of the debate . '¦ ¦ ¦ ' . ¦ ^
. The House adjourned at Iiul f-past twelve . Wednesday , March 23 . At the sitting of the Housis of Commons , the Hio-u Sheriff ' s Expenses Bill , was read a second time , on the motion of Mr . D . Giiivviru .
KDINBtTRGH , ETC ., ANNUITY TAX BILL . Mr . Black having . moved the second reading of this bill , Mr . C . Bruce moved to defer the second reading for six months . He opposed the bill , as a measure of spoliation and robbery , tending to the direct annihilation of the principle of an established Church , so far as the city of Edinburgh was concerned , which could not be done without inflicting a heavy blow upon the established Church of Scot- ? land . The bill , he contended , offered no substitute , justly available for the purpose , that could be relied upon . He was quite ready to lend his assistance in putting ; this tax upon a better footing . —Mr . Baxter
supported the bill . There was a great and growing feeling in . the country that all such questions ought to be got rid of , and he appealed to the Government to make a candid and an explicit statement of what they intended to do to settle this question . — Mr . Blackburn opposed the bilJ :, characterising' it as a most outrageous measure , which , as far « is Edinburgh was concerned ; would take the property of the Church , and provide no substitute for what it took away . — -Mr . Horsbian observed that the same principle which had been applied to Dissenters in England would apply , and should be applied , to Dissenters in Scotland . The objections to the bill went to the details , to which there might be valid Objections ; but ; , what faults it had belonged to be amended in
matters of detail , which could committee . —Mr . Stewart opposed the bill . — 'The Loud Advocate strongly objected to the proposal for sweeping away the annuity tax without providing any substitute . The Government , he intimated , were engaged in preparing a bill on the subject , which would shortly be laid before ¦ parliament . He agreed that the tax was levied in a most unfortunate way ; but the principle was mixed' up with the question as to a substitute , and the bill proposed the total abolition of the tax without making an adequate provision for the ministers . He could not , therefore , assent to the second reading of the bill . — Mr . MpNCitEiFF said , although he could not bind himself to the details of the bill ergo to its full extent , he approved its principles , and recommended that
it should bo read a second time—Mr . Uwan supported the bill , which was opposed by Mr . Baxlub . —Sir W . Bunjjar advocated the principle of abolition . Hfe maintained that this tax was identical ra its principle with Ministers' Money in Ireland , which had been abolished . —Mr . Scott opposed tUc second reading . —Lord Elcho was anxious to sec this vexatious question settled , - but he aid not » ogard this bill as a just and reasonable sett G"je « t » and > as the Government had promised a mil , » o should oppose its second reading—Mr . Lajjouciieke
thought this tax stood upon the same tootingjw Ministers' Money in Ireland . Tho question now was , wh ether the tax , as it stood , should bo abolislica . He was not satisfied with the substitute proposed * y the bill ; but that was a question winch migni uo . considered . in tho committee . —Mr . Mackik ° PP ° i tlio . biIl .- ~ Mr . Bniaur said , if the descriptions Jt this tax given on both sides were correct , the Hoiwo shnnld 1 nr > 1 c fnvonrablv unon any proposal tor itsftuu
HtlQXi . Edinburgh possossod sufficient vesouu's w provide stipends for its minietors ; why then , mo asked , should the House contiiiuo tho < h * eus 8 ion en thisquostiou when thoy muatcomo ultlmntoly to t u same conclusion as regarding Ministers M ""^' . " Ohurch , ratos?—air . S . Esxcouia' acknowledge < nv i every one must come to tho samo conclusion , tiuu u tax ought to bo put an end to ( the only questJo wJ in what mnnnev it should bo done . AHor t . « » nounooment niiulo by tlio fcord Advocate , \\ asked , should thoy road a second time a u j » provisions of which thow wlio Biji ^ pjodJt •¦ " { » Jn ? JVir jau ^ .-y
approve — . uiaaqe ana u wu r - .. v favour of the bih \ and Mr . Black having Pj upon a division tho second reading was cnuiui ^ $ 10 to 170 . I'owi nuMBif ( iKi 3 r-Aisi >) i > ii-r ,. Mr . GitBaoitY moved tho second wndlnjj ot i »»
Untitled Article
390 THE LEADER . [ Xo . 4 m March 261859 .
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Citation
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Leader (1850-1860), March 26, 1859, page 390, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse2.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/vm2-ncseproduct2287/page/6/
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