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j^ zkTwmimmfflmf'&'t'A- *- T>mmm h um*
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in bribery to carry theAct of Union, but...
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Printed fey DOUGAL M'GOTVAN, of 16, Great WmiaM' dr.**.' Havmnrl'Gt. in thn'fiit-r n* "Westminster, at W"
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¦ Office, Snthesame Street and Parish, f...
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
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J^ Zktwmimmfflmf'&'T'A- *- T>Mmm H Um*
j _^ _zkTwmimmfflmf' &' _t'A- _* - T > _mmm h um *
In Bribery To Carry Theact Of Union, But...
in bribery to carry theAct of Union , but your National Debt from l 8 ol to 1810 increased more than in the sixteen pre _^ ng years , and more than in the thirty-three years preceding those sixteen years . It was because England looked with an eye of apprehension on the part Ireland would take in the event of a war with France ; that this sura was _sacri-Seed . What was the price offered to Irishmen for betraying their . country ? £ 15 , 090 was offered for a borongh , if the owner was a peer ; aud the peerage , with suitable p ickings , if he was a commoner . All who had political inflnence were bribed . From that period to the present vou have g ivfin eveiy spurious upstart sortoi
aristocrat-every man who had any , _u—c -a bribe . If that man were a commoner you mads Km a peer , and if a peer yon enriched him with a patronage aud _* l 5 , _* m _^ _^ _^ _whal Suited , Lord C _a-tlereagh undertook to name what would be the _Standard of _representation He took _fct the ix > pulation , then theimports and exports and lastly the revenue of the country . But how did he keep faith with the people of Ireland even in referenc- to the standard which he had assumed ? Instead t > f g iving Ireland 260 members to which she would hare been entitled , according to one calculation . 170 on another , and 165 on a third , ( aud Mr Foster showed the errors of his tables ) , he gave us 108 members only , so that ¦ while Eneland had five hundred and thirteen representatives for a population of 9 , 000 , 000 , orll _. 000 , 000 . Irel and had onlv one hundred to represent a population of 5 . 000 . 000 . ( Hear . hear . ) I ask this house if
that cau be be looked upon as a fair representation ? Could the Irish people be otherwise than dissatisfied with such an arrangement ? ( Hear . hear . ) Besides that , the parties sent to the House of Commons were only those who would be sure to prove themselves the minions and tools of the English government . The first act of these members was to pass a law in favour of absentee landlords snd against the Catholics , by which they were enabled to distrain the growing crops , and to evict if two shillings were doe , and thus lay the foundation of that system whieh , after so many years had elapsed , you now ask for coercion "bills to put down . "Sou now ask for coercion bills to protect the property of Irish peers from depredation . The Irish peers were men who had not a single
particle to recommend them , except their hostility to Ireland . In 1735 . the Irish Protestant -parliament passed the Tithe Agistment Act . by which the Protestant owner of four thousand acres paid not a pennv in tithes , while thepoor Catholic widow , who grubbed the manure from the roads , which manure she applied to the patato patch that furnished her with food , was compelled to pay the impost due by the Prote _stantlandlord . When the act was repealed in 1823 the landl ords immediately waged a destructive « ar against tithes . During that p-riod , the Protestant landlords were employed as grand jurors , magistrates , _capfaias of yeomanry corps , and spies . Fram 1735 to 1823 , their own grass lands were eymnted from tithes , and during that period , they
waged a desolating war against all who resisted the payment of tithes , bat in 1823 , when the honourable member-for the University of Cambridge brought those gras 3 lands under the impost—from that hour , the Protestant landlords were the first to take the chair at anti-tithe meetings . Sir Edmund Nagle and the Hon . Pierce Butler earnestly resisted the payment of tithes to the Protestant clergy . So long as the impost was not payable by themselves , they shot or transported eve _^ f man who attempted to remove the burden from their shoulders to those of the landlords . ( Hear , hear . ) I was tried in Irehnd , in 1832 , for resisting the payment ef tithes . ( Hear , Bear , and langhter . ) But I was not an artful or designing demagogue . I did hot expect to gain
anything by the course I had taken . I might go further , and say that , during the whole course of my _existtencs _, I never travelled a mile , nor partook of a meal at the expense of any party . Although I conducted more contested elections than any other man in Ireland , I never took even my travelling expenses , althouebi as a barrister ,. I was entitled to large fees . ( Hear , hear . ) ' I was not one of those who went about tiie country attempting to create bitter feelings between man and man . I never lived hor attempted to live upon discord . Neither have I ever made a single proposition out of : doers that ! have netadvo cated to the best of my ability in this house . That is the qualification by which I seek to establish my right tobe heard here . ( Hear , hear . ) Now , sir , I
come toa question , whicii . has _beenim-de a great handle of _inthishdnse- _^ Irefer _. to the proposal of a more extensive system of emigration from Ireland . I contend for it that if ever anything was more disgraceful to a government than another , it is the attempt to _sedu-e men who ought to have profitable employment in their own country , to emigrate from the land oftheir birth to a foreign country .- ( Hear , hear . ) Every young man who . has left his home yearns for the time when he should return to his native soil , and it is the darling object of every old emigrant to have his bones laid in the grave of his fathers . ( Hear , hear . ) When I see my countrymen traversim- the whole world in eeareh of the lien ' s share of labour , and when I sea toilin--
Irishmen here , carrying their hods at yonr docks and pnblic buildings ( roars of laughter ) while their own conntry is a barreR wilderness , to what ean it be attributed bnt to the want of a proper government , and to the neglect of government in not developing the resources ofthe country ? I lay this down as an axiom , that no danger can result from social improvement , for from social improvement alone can spring np a proper system of government . If social improvement were attained ,, improvement ia the representation would fellow ,: and government then would Sod a difficulty in buying off men , as they now bpu- _* ht of political agitators , who merely agitated for their own sordid purposes . ( Hear , hear . ) It has been the curse of this conntry tbat in the exact
proportion in whicfi we seek to extend liberty—and here let me not bs misunderstood . I do hot mean that liberty which is likely to degeneratemta licentiousness—I mean liberty tempered with reason and discretion—inthe exact proportion in which liberty _increases does corruption increase also , for the government are aware that at all times it is iu their power to purchase up those demagogues who merely excite the country for their own private glory or advantage ' . It seemed , however , to be the rule that those who took the lion ' s share of glory were also to have the lion ' s share of punishment . I have been in prison oftener than any hon . member in this house , ( Laughter * )—and I attribute the respect forthe ordinary law which the people show to that
circumstance . |"» poor man of my party has ever gene before a jury without being provided with the best counsel , paid for with money out of ray own pocket . Many hon . members in this house have been employed and paid by meto defend poor men ; and I can call on them to _' confirm what I assert ; that I hare never shrunk from ray share of responsibility .: Eut I would now come to the Free Trade portion of this _q-iestioa . And here I would say . that I believe there does sot exist a more honourable , upright , aod conscientious man than the leader of the _Ffte Trade party—Mr Richard Cobden . ( Hear , hear . J I met Mm but once , and I was opposed to him till I met him , and after that I saw beneficence in his face : Yes , I have seen humanity and kindness in the
man ' s face ; 1 . have _seen-i-and I -think -myself a bit ofa _physiognoraistr-kindness ,:. humanity , i and generosity in that man ' s face . ( Hear , and langhter . ) There is . one question connected with free trade which free , traders seemed to blink .. I allude to the necessity , owing , to the union , which exists for Irish labourers tb come over to this country and to compete with the English _Iabeurer for work . I contend for it , that the competition of Irish witb English labourers has the effect of reducing wages in this country by { 3 O , 00 O , OO 0 Z . a year . and increasing the expense ef your poor laws . _Itadds toyour difficulties , by taking at least 430 , 000 , 000 per _anaura from the labour market , whieh money might be employed at home . Will ' tSat'fe " denied , ' or wiH ' ahy
one tell me that it is better _toflcae those _£ 30 , 000 ; o 0 o and £ 7 , 080 , 000 more in poor-rates , than have the _i Irish _kbourersproEtably employed at home , * and pnt into a position of becoming your best customers ? - * I askanygentieman , whether this question of labour is not now the most vital question . ( Hear , hear , hear . ) Tou may talk as ypu please _alwut your . Exchequer - . Bills and your . Bank Charters , but I tell yoa , that if labour is ' not protecfed ' all your other projects are mere moonshine . ' ( Hear , hear . ) Labour ia the source of all wealth , -and it is all folly and nonsense to be passing Coercion Bills or attempting to adopt any system that will make money either cheaper dear , until yon devise somentethod by which you can ensure to thelabourer a narticioation in the
fruits of his lndustay . ( Cheers . ) That is the great and important question , and tiie . oae into which the peopleof England are _nowiiwldng minutely . J _* We now see raills either _steppm _* j _| or * _rorl _^" Bh 6 rt time' i aad when it is considered that this is in afeat measure owing tb the influxof ' Irfekkbonrere ; is it to be wondered at that -English _operatives ' _should look with disgust and dissatisfaction oa those competitive labourers ? ( Hear , hear . ) I draw no _distinctioa between the two classes . * I say all honour to the Saxon , though after the manner in which my country has been attacked by the press here , I might entertain no friendly feelhig towards England , yet I say honour tothe Saxon . Mind , I lever used the word Saxon as a term of reproach . While at the
game time I can perfectly justify that man , haw no more , for doing so ; considering the manner in which his country had been treated by England , by parties in and out of this house . I oan well allow for the irritated feelings of a man placed in his position . I hare b een placed in a diffeient position . I havo lived with the Saxon along time , and I must always bear testimony to Ms ability , manliness , aiid baldness . But let us return to tiie question respecting the parliaments of the two countries . When fifty _© atholics and fifty-five Protestant representatives come hen from Ireland , what power have they ? NenewbafeTer , : _Whoererttts on tke opposite ( the ministerial ) benches , will mkonp in . patronage fiat ttey want in power . J # 6 S _W *» ra to the
In Bribery To Carry Theact Of Union, But...
present time , all estates in Ireland had beet culti * rated according to the science of politics , and uot according to the science of agriculture . If Ireland had been properly governed , we should not see , after nearly half a century , that' one" year she ' came to England for alius , and the next fora Coercion Bill . I have shown , when Ireland was free , n _» coantry in the world had ever improved ' with sueh rapidity . I have already stated that there never has been a Catholio revolution . The oath ofthe Irish Confederates was to this effect , that all parties and all religions were to combine to effect parliamentary reform . In this Confederation there were only four Catholics implicated ; they were otherwise all Protestants . There was no such thing as a religions outbreak known in _Irishiistory . I shall now read the names of those who led the rebellion of 1798 and my own father ' s name is atthe head of the list , and my _understands next .
Roger O Connor William Sampson Arthur O'Connor Br Beynolds Lord Edward Fitzgerald Cornelias Grogan Hambden Evans Rev . Dr Dixon Archibald Hamil ton Rowan Sir Edward Crosbie Theobald Wolfe Tone Oliver Bond The Rev . Ur Jackson Hamilton - Lor 4 Castlereagh Ponsonby ; Beauchamp B , Hervey Lumm Thoraai Addis Emmet Grattan William Dren & n Henry Jackson The Corbett * Chambers
Comyn Orr _Dewdall Siletto Hudson "Porter _M'Clean The Sbearses Black Hunter M'Cann Tandy _Colclough Wilson Heilson Turner Simms Russell and Tenant Robert Emmet _Dowlisg W . James _H'Uevin ** l Jehn Cortnac f ......
JohnSwiney \ Catho - - John Sweetman 3 Mr Grattan made some observation , which was inaudible in the reporter ' s gallery . Mr O'Connor : If the hon . gentleman wishes to see his father ' s name , I will show it to him ia print . Mr Henry Grattan and Lord Castlereagh were TJn ' ted Irishmen . The hon . gentleman waa not ia bad company . Another circumstance which the house would see was an enormity , was that the whole ofthe staff in Ireland , not only up to the time of the passing of the Act of Union , but up to the present time , were all Protestants—whether sheriffs , or lord-lieutenants * -the magistracy were for the most part'Protestant . Inthe barony of East Muskerry , in ; the county of Cork , there was not a single Roman Catholic
magistrate . One of the circumstances which had tended to widen the breach between England and Ireland was the exchange ofthe militias . Yes . England had _senta licensed band of plunderers into Ireland , and Ireland had exchanged an . Orange force . for them . These were facts which irritated tbe publio mind in Ireland , and in England too . lam now coming to the question , whetner or sot you will grant this committee ; neither Ksh nor English gentlemen considered that there was any statute of limitation against the recovery of property taken from them . Tou have denounced the Roman Catholio priesthood of Ireland , asthefomenters ofthe evils which distracted that country . It wa 3 mere folly to do so . These men were members of some ef the first families in the country , who kept in their possession the title-deeds of estates which had been wrested frem their
ancestors—these were the ' men who were called npon to visit their flocks , often ou the property which had belonged to their own family . There was not a mountain pass that did not bear the impress of his honoured foot— -there was not a hovel they did not visit . And there were the men who had their armorial bearings over the chimney-piece , and who had the title-deeds of their estates locked up . No statute of limitation could operate against the right of a man to regain that which had beeu taken from him . I would ask the noble lord if , at the battle of Waterloo , instead of Wellingtonconquering , Napoleon Buonaparte had cmquered , and had partitioned out this land among his followers , and had brought with him Roman Catholic priests— -to whom the Bedford ' s
should pay tribute . —What would be the noble lord ' s dying bequest to those that succeeded him ? Would it hot be to rid themselves of an alien priesthood and to recover their lands , to the possession ofwhieh there was no statute ef limitation ? And under such circumstances , would not the greatest honour be due to the greatest traitor ? Would not the noble lord be consoled in his last moments with the idea that a day might arrive when some of hiB descendants would regain that which had been wrested from' him ? Would not the very idea : of such a recovery console him in _h's last moments ? But the noble lord is hot here ; and I almost _rejaice that the honourable member for _Dungarvan is not here , for it was my intention to ask him whether
as one of an oppressed and persecuted faith , he derived more honour from Bitting on the Treasury bench , alongside the perpetrators of his disgrace and his country ' s dishonour , than could be obtained by boldly joining that party who resisted tke government ? If he were present —[ The appearance of Mr Sheil at this moment peeping from behind the Speaker ' s chair , occasioned considerable merriment . ] ' I get a glimpse of the right honourable gentleman how , and hope he * ill take a course which will cause gladness throughout the land of his birth . ' 1 hope the right honourable gentleman will do that which would make every heart rejoice , every valley ring with the song of gladness , and every hill echo back the joyous note ; I hope the right hon . gentleman will abandon
that position which he has so long held . ( Laughter . ) There was-a time when an appeal to such a man , and on such a theme , would hot be laughed at ; however , I still hope that the right hon . gentleman ; of whom Ireland has a just right to be proud , will abandon the errors of his ways . ( Laughter . ) : The house shoald bear in mind , that at the time Ireland became a party to the union , she was coerced by . the presence of 150 , 000 military . Ireland had no voice in the compact which _shewas forced to ! eater into with England . Every man in Ireland was nnder the impression that resistance to the act of nnion was certain death . This ! have already told the hon . member for Meath , who has either never read the history oi his country , or if he has , is so deficient
in it , that he does not know . that his honoured father was among tiie volunteers . I now ask the house , to decide at once , whether it wonld be beneficial to both countries tc repeal the act of union ? rwould now beg to call the attention of the house to the present state ef Europe ! . : Lo 6 k to Spain , ever Upon the eve of a ' revolution , and to Portugal , where the people are only held in servile subjection— -look to the Italian -States ot Austria , and of the papal domnion , while you are vainly hoping'to suppress Catholicism . Look to Fiance , whose ' present constitution rests upon the slender , thread of ane old man . Look te Prussia , whose constitution is engaged in a struggle against despotism , and to the convulsed state of Switxerland , which msy be likened to a great
boiler ready to explode in the centre of Europe ! Let , the honse reflect on the sympathy which was eviueed by America for the wrongs of Ireland ! As-soon as America should be free to act , if erer Ireland should require support , America would , come to . the relief of _har flash aad blood , and seek Ireland ' s liberation . 1 believe that by something- like reciprocity , with a parliament sitting in . England , and a parliament sitting in aad for Ireland—if agriculture in the latter kingdom were successfully carried out—the Irish would be better customers in the ' English markets for _tnanofacfares ; and _thafc- _'insfead of . looking all over the world for food , we should ; have a colony at ourowri door .. As many . hon . gentlemen _will-. tafce a prominent part in this debate , I would , _merelv
observe that I have laid before the ' house , ia . the cturse of my address , the . history _^^' q _^ . iiiy _county , ; divided info four periods , lhave shown that ' there never had been a Reman CathoUe revolution in Ireland ; I have * shown that , in the year 1780 ; Ireland , did not ' owe a halfpenny , whereas in a comparatively short period subsequently , she was frightfully involved . ' . But before frit down , I _muBt state ; : Ireland ' s claim to a parliament , and shall show . what the i probable effect ofa domestic legislature would be ; , Firstly , then , I assert tbat Ireland never had a ' free parliament---its membera being ' Protestants / and' its clients being Catholics—while the question at issue , was the right of the former , to hold the latter in vassalage , and continue in the possession of their estates . ' Thatthe ¦
TJnieu waa carried by bloodshed , treachery , and bribery ; and that , if the parliament was corrupt , it should . have keen . .. reformed , aud not . destroyed ... I haveshawn tke slender title ofthe Crown of England to the dominion of Ireland , and I have . proved , beyond cohtrbverey , that there never was a religious war fomented by the Irish Catholics , but that they were waged , - either " -bytheEnglish ; l y bind , against the _^ _Insh people ; by - the English b y' birth , against ; the English by blood ; by the Catholic * of England against the Catholics of Ireland , up to 1542 , when both nations were Catholic ; by the Protestants of England , from that period to 17 T 6 , and from 1776 to the present time , by the English settlers and boraughmongers in Ireland , against the Catholic people , who were true' tb their faith ' ' And I have 1
boldly laid down the principle , fromwhich I shall never flinch in this louse or elsewhere , that no statute of limitation _can- operate against the right orthe duty _ofa-coaquewd people to ' regain their liberties . ( _Heanhear . ) Ishall now show the advantages that a Repeat ofthe Union , would eonfer npon both countries . It would place the , Irish land _, lords under the vigilant popular control of those upon whose labour they live—which wonld naturally induce them tb complete , in good works ; far the goed opinion , the gratitude , and confidence of their neighbours . It would throw them upon their own resources , instead of making them beggars at Britain ' s door ; it would compel the landlords to cultivate their estates ; according to the science of agriculture , and not according to the science of political patronage ; we should then see agriculture improviig , education piip _^ ioffi aatl _igofality developed . When o _» m-
In Bribery To Carry Theact Of Union, But...
lre ?« _" tbe- « K 6 t _oastomer .-inthe English market ; relievinzher poor rates , and taking her manufactures in retarn for her substantial produoe . ; an « then farewell to coereion—because its oaases would cease , when justice shoald be done . Labouring , under severe _indisposition , and only urged by imperative duty to undertake so onerous . a task ,. he hegc * ed to thank the house for its present hearing ef Ireland ' s cause , aad their great courtesy to so humble an individual : and . in conclusion , would ask for the
appointment of this committee of inquiry . I would remind the house of the statesmanlike _speeoh ofthe right hon . baronet the member for Tamworth , the other night , against blaming the sense ofa united hcuse ! Be it remembered that it was not the minister _wha wauld be to blame if the house rejected this application ; I would remind those especially who had obtained aeceee to this _hsuse on the ground of their promises to support the Repeal of the Union , ef tbis fact . I think I am entitled to . the gratitude of those hon . members in enabling them , through my instrumentality , to redeem , their pledge thus early . For myself , I would not _hild a seat in this house if I had broken a pledge which I had once given , nor
would I cive a pledge that was not in perfect consonance with my own feelings . I have been looked upon as a destructive and a revolutionist , but I am doing more than any other man in England , to create an improved social state . I am devoting every hour and every day to this object : and although I have been called an infidel , and branded aa a destructive , I am for the altar , the throne , and the cottage . I wish to see the altar the footstool of God / and not the couch of Mammon ; I wish to see the throne based on the affections of the people , not on the lust of the aristocracy ; and the cottage made the castle of the freeman , instead of the den < of the slave . ( Hear , hear . ) The hon . member concluded by moving : — .
For a select committee , to inquire and report on the meaos by wbich tbe dis'ohtion of the parliament of Ireland was effected ; on the effects of that measure upon Ireland , and upon tbe labonrers in husbandry and operatives in manufactures in England ; and on the probable _conseqne ' nces ' of continuing the legislative union between toth countries , Mr D Cahaghah secondtd tbe motion . Sir 6 . fliTT was sorry the hen . gentleman ( Mr O'Conaor ) felt any ground to complain of his ( Sir f j Grey ) having put him in an unfair position by the request , he bad made early in > the day , that he would postpone his motion for tbe present , ani allow . tbe publio business ' nhich pressed to be proceeded with . But afterthe speech of the hon . member , he . ( Sir G . Grey ) could not help
thinking that the hon . member would _^ ave exercised a wiser discretion if he had acceded to the proposition fora postponement . The most discreet part of the bon ! gentle _, man ' s speech Was its conclusion , _when he read tie terms of the notice ef motion whicb he bad placed' on the books on fhe first day of the session , ' If he had not read ithe . motion , few hon , members who had heard tbe speech could hava _eonjectured what the hon . gentleman was about to propose . , ( Hear , and a laugh . ) The hon ; gentleman had , by going through the history of Ireland , from the time of Edgar , shown tbat , since he _* waB last a member of that house , he had acquired much _aatifusriah lore , but he ( Sir 6 . Grey ) thought that many of hiB historical facts hadibeen combated on a former occasion by the right hon . baronet near him ( Sir R . Feel . ) Certainly
the hen . gentleman had favoured the house to-night with an autobiography from an early date down to the period when , by tbe professional services of two hon . and learned friends , he had been acquitted of charges brought against him . AU this had nothing to do with the motion / which he ( Sir G . Grey ) could hardly suppose was seriously _intended . The hon , member had detailed the evils of Ireland , bnt those evils had all occurred anterior to the data of the Act of Union , and , therefore , could not be attribnted to that measure , Ifthe hon . gentleman really thought the Repeal ofthe Union was desirable , wby did be _nst , instead of movlsg for a committee to inquire into facts which were already matter oi historical record , take tbe opinion of tbe house openly and manfully by moving a committeo of the whole house on the act of union , with a view of moving a resolution that it was desirable that act should be repealed ! This would be a much fairer modeofdealing with the subject . Thsbon . _memberhae utterly failed in laying down any ground even for the
appointment ofa committee , still less fer the larger question . . He complained that Irish labourers were interfering with the wages of the l « bourcrs in this country , but did he mean by Repealing the Union to prohibit the emigration hereV Irish labourers * Instead _' of mahing bo complete a clearance , parliament ought to endeavour by wise legislation , by kindness , generosity , and justice _^ to consolidate-the union , arid by extending the hand ol brotherhood to make tbe two countries still more closely united . He regretted that , the honourable gentleman should have endeavoured to make tbis question one as between Protestants and Roman Catholics , when it bad been the object of every successive government to get rid of that sectarian bigotry which had marked the _leglsla . tion snd the government of former times . ( Hear , hear . ) Thinking the committee proposed would be a mere moekcry and delusion , and end in no beneficial resalt , bot , oa the contrary , would lead to mischief , be hoped that instead of leading to a long debate tbe motion would be at once negatived . ( Hear , hear . )
Mr F , _O'CosKoa waB ready to adopt tbe appeal of the right ' hon . baronet , and at once move the resolution pointed out by him in a committee of the whole house , if the right hoa , baronet would undertake to second it , ( Langhter . ) Sir G . Gbey said he had made no appeal—be had merely remarked that snch would have been the fairest coarse to pursue ., ( Hear , hear . ) ' _ , MrO & _ATTiK said that as the hon , member for Nottingham had scattered his shot on his ( Mr Grattan ' s ) side of the house , he begged to offer a few words . ' He denied that his late father had ever been a rebel , and declared that . such a statement was false . ( Order , order ) . He did not apply that to the hon ., member , but to the paper he had introduced , which contained a falsehood . The hon ; member had libelled both tbe late
Mr Grattan and Lord Charlemont . The charges made against them were base and . unfounded , y Hr Pansonby and Mr Grattan were never ia the list of united Irishmen , and though Lord . Castlereagh had joined that body in . Belfast , in 1791 , he _hadnsthing to do with them in 1796 . Such Conduct was unbecoming ; he wished not to quarrel ' _-Titb'the hon . member , but . 'he would fight him on that ground with the last drop ofhis blood . ( Laugh _, ter . ) He objected to ., this setting of party _sgainet party-this exciting of jealousy—this reviving of things that were obsolete , aud this constant reference in the time of affliction and distress , when they ought to cooperate together , to old grievances . He appealed to the good heart of tho hon . gentleman , for although he wished that house to believe it was' as black ' as it ceuld be , it was not so black as he would make them believe it was . - ( A laugh . ) The hon . gentleman on a
memor « me occasion In the county of Meath stood by him > like a man of courage , whea he had a baronet at his breast and a sabre over his head ; and he ( Mr Grattan ) would stand hy the hon . geutleman , wh : n he acted rightly , ' as firmly as he would _oppo-e him when he waa acting wrongly . He did nipt' . say that this vias a claptrap motion , but it might tend to frustrate ; the ctje ' ct the hon . gentleman had in view . If the hon , gentleman proposed a motion for the consideration of the Act of Union , he ( Mr Grattan ) would : support him ; but not when . became under a . mask , libelling Lord Charle .. mont , the volunteers , Mr Grattan , and Mr PoMonby , and then thotight he eould sit down there unanswered _. He charged the ' _honf'gentleman _withyfour _libsls , and iu calling upon ihat house , as the jury , to convict him , he pronounced the hon . gentleman ' guilty , npon his honour . ' ( Lsughter and cries of 'Divide , ' )
Mr 3 . O'Cobnklv said he preferred : to see this _anestion brought forward by the member , for an , English constituency . Though he did not think the motion most _opportune , he could not refrain _frpmexpresslng . his _sentimeats , At a moment when it was doubtful whether there would long bean Irish people to whom to grant a parliament—when coercive measures were preparing for thatcountry— -when the rancour of religious animosity was in full force—such a motion as this was certainly ill-timed . At to the first part of the proposed inquirythe means by which the union was effected—he did not think it weU that these _mitdeeds should be utterly buried la oblivion ; to recal tbem might serve as a warning to future statesmen . Ths meanB by which the union . was carried were the deliberate fomenting and fostering of
a rebellion . At that time ths English ministry had found thst the old de-iwsof misrule and injustice had become powerless ; the _feeliig of nationality , both In Protestants and Catholics , had waxed too strong for them , and the old trlck ; of _sowlBg dissension and spreading division was no longer available ; . It became necessary therefore , to foment bloodshed and rebellion , whereby the minister _sosght to effect bit nefarious purpose . Brl _; beryandconuptiouwere ' _alsorinspariri gly resorted , to , Lord Castlereagh _uhWuehligly deolared ' . ttiat half a _millioahadbeenex-. ended in this way , and _thatasmuch more »! ght be necessary . KotwltbBtanding the eloquent denunciations of Mr Grattan three millions werV spent in this wholesale corruption , and three millions more in _pmtang down tht insurrection which ¦ . had been fomented for ths purpose . S « ll the object was not attained . By a . sailmore . uBiparing use , of corrupt influence thirta Irish members were induced to resign their seats , into
wbich were thrust English and Scetch officers'i aad ' place . men ; and thus was tke union effected , The _secend part f the proposed inquiry was directed to the _consequeaceg of ths Union . Let any _« ne who wished to know those consequences look at the present state of Ireland , its starring peasantry , its rained farmers , - with famine and fever stalking through the land . Could the condition of the country have been possibly reduced , lower under any Iri ' _ah ' parUament whatsoever , than ft was after forty seven years of imperial misrule i Before tho Vaioh the stateof the country was most prosperous . '¦ . , . ' , This ., Earl of Clare , one of the artificers of the ' Union , * ho ' , ient _hfanVelfesmpletely ' to the ends of . the British government , . _declared that no nation i in the world had made greater progress in commerce , _attt , and . manufactures , than Ireland had done _dnrla _* - the eighteen , years tbat she had enjoyed her independent legislature . _IrtHrtl Castlereagh himself , in 1 S 99 , ' had declared that
In Bribery To Carry Theact Of Union, But...
Ir-land , daring the . tea years Iron * . 1791 ; t * 18 tI , had kade a progress which - _astenithtd the , world . The effeet of tbe unim on _Englsnd itself was _ansthir branch of tbe proposed inquiry ., Though-England _^ might _bs . _-happr , Ireland would ever bo a bitter drop ia her cup ,, so Jong as she was neglected , as , at present . When Irishmen asked for relief , they were told to rely on themselves , and their complaints were disregarded and laughed at , He contended that Ireland had a right to peoaniary relief , on account of having been deprived by this country of their local m « anB of employing capital . From a statement of tbe outgoings of Ireland , he found that tbe absentee rents amounted to five milliens ; interest on mortgages , three millions ; for ' _Engllsh produoe and manufactures , thirteen millions ; in all , tweaty . ons mil .
lions , the exports enly amounting to fifteen millions , leaving a drain of six million _s . Such a country could not be in a prosperous ' state . The honourable member proceeded to contend that by the consolidation ; of tbe exehequers , the act of union had been violated , and the ita . peris ! parliament itself bad sanctioned this unconstitu _* tional and illegal measure , During the first _aerenteea years of consolidation , Ireland paid £ 18 , 006 , 00 * of _taxation more thau she was entitled to . The honourable member then read a great number ef documents with tke view of proTlog that Ireland had paid a much greater share of taxation than Bhe ought to have dene , insisting that up to 1840 , she had thus unfairly contributed £ 60 , 000 , 000 more tban ber share , aud had a claim upon this country , for that amount . The amount of taxation
imposed upon Ireland had been double the amonnt of that of which sbe had been relieved . English gentlemen were in the habit of taunting the peeple of Ireland with tbe large sums whioh had been remitted to her from this country . The remittances from ths British exchequer to Ireland since the union amounted to - £ 7 . 590 , 009 , whereas the money seat from Ireland to England amounted to £££ , 700 , 060 . The honourable member for Nottingham had referred . to the bad effects of the union on the poorer classes in England ,. Tbat was a part of the subject which deserved serious attention . One of the evils which that measure undoubtedly produced , was to cause a pauper emigration from Ireland to England . Tbe people of this country were impoverished by the number of poor Irish who came over here to seek employment ,
and he contended that the effect of the Irish poor-law would be to stimulate that emigration still further . Tbe right honourable baronet alluded to tbe repeal debate of 1831 . ' The _motion on the lubjeet of repeal , which had beea made at that time , was rejected by an overwhelmiBg majority , it was true ; but , at the same time , a so le ' mri pledge , to which the kin ** , lords , and commons ef "" ragland assented , waa made in the address to the crown , that both houses would apply themselves toremove all just causes of complaint , and . to remedy the grievances of Ireland . There they were now in the thirteenth year after , that pledge bad been made—aud had it been fulfilled ? Had it not rather been violated ? The landlord and tenant question was yet unsettled ; and there was no attempt to remedy the grievances ofa de .
fective municipal reform act ; and a diminished eleotive . franchise . A thousand other grievances remained un * _reoregseci ,. He believed , that a repeal of the union wonld alone offer ' tho proper , remedy . It would put a stop , to ' that great . Bouroe of evij ia Ireland—the absentee drain . ' It _' wo . _ald ' affprd _j an inducement to . the gentry of . Ireland to ; remain At home . ,,,. j " t would keep the poor of Ireland r jhcime , j . I _^ _wauldjncrease the prosperity and wealth of ' _theiCfjuntry _^ _-and , therefore , _i WoUId offer a better market for _^ emanufactureBofBagland . ThuB , _bothcountriea hftd ' fln'interesUn _. the _^ questlon . . He believed : that :, wouId . b ' e ' a means of mutual _Bupport—of mutual enrichment ; thatit would . . confer order . and : prosperity at _hon-B _. ahdgiVei _] _irresIstlbie strength and . _potver abroad . ( Her _^); _- ' , , . _,,,. ; ' ; Y . ' ' . 1 : ' „• . ¦ ¦ . . ,: ,. , Mr . _TaEiA . WKr . was still of opinion , notwithstanding all
that , had fallen from the hon . member who . had just sat down , that Ireland , was far too lightly taxed . He saw no reason why . the income , tax should , not ; be extended to Irelaud , or why _asaessed taxes , should not be increased . He was sure be spoke the sense of . the country . when he declared thatthe burdens of Ireland , Instead of being , as the hon .-member had alleged , too heavy , werelar too light . ( Hear . hear , ) He , therefore , hoped that the government would not be Induced by ; the constant howl of the Irish members—by their continual dunning and boring for money—to yield to their unreasonable demands . ( Loud cries of' Hear , hear . ' ) With respect to the _Repenl of the Union , be believed that , if agreed to , the result would be that the people of the north of Ireland wonld not tolerate being , domineered over by
the people of the South ; that a civil war would consequently ensue ; and that after a time a _militarydespotiem would be established , and we should then be in a greater peril than ever from such dangerous neighbours . ( Hear , hear . ) He had thought that the Chartists of England and the Repealers of Ireland were at vailance with each other ; he knew they used to be ; but it weuld appear that their _feiids were at length healedi ; up ; and that they were new overbidding each other for popularity iii the same cause . ( Hear , hear . ) With respect tothe Irish landlords , he thought their case exceedingly hard—seeing that if . they remained on their estates they were liable to be shot , and that if they were absent it , was proposed to make them liable to additional taxation . . They
were , thus placed between two fires . The hon , member ( Mr O'Connell ) had appealed to > the English people to do more for the Irish , and had endeavoured to show that , as _reitaried the past , Ireland owed nothing to England , That was a reason why John Bull shonld not give any mere ; for if Ireland disallowed the debt which was already owing , what chance was there of getting back that which was now asked ? . ( Hear . ) After , lecturing ithe Irish members for preventing _theprpgress of publio business , the hon , member proceeded to deliver a speech which had evidently boen prepared for the debate on the Coercion Bill , but which , having ' . missed a chance of speaking be ' ore , he now tugged head and ears , into the midst of a debate on the _Le-lsla'tlve Union ,
Major O'FUHEm said he should oppose ' the Coercion Bill In _allii ' _sstageg . " ¦! •'; ' , ; i ; . \ ; . Mr _R-evMOias said , as < a cordial friend of Repeal , whieh ho thought would be for _, the social and moral advantage of Ire _' and _, he could not but express his regret at the introduction of this question at tbis particular time , and he had exerted ' _his influence with the hon . member for Nottingham with the view of Inducing him to postpone it for at least one montb . His motive for offering this advice was to afford ao opportunity to all _menhers of tbe house whe , were friendly to a Repeal of the Union to . attend during the discussion of this great national question ; and he might say this , Imperial question , for it affected not only the interests of Ireland , but' those of every part of the united empire , _, He regretted . that he
could not prevail upon the _hoH . member to _postpene his motion , Let hira not be understood its regretting the introduction of this question on any other grounds ; and he hoped he should not be charged by the bon . gentleman with any feeling of jealousy towards him ; but as the question , had . been Introduced , he felt that he : should shrink from his _duty . _lf he did notybtefor the committee . He believed this was a reasonable motion , for . a committee was appointed ik ' ordei' to _ioqulre , . Beforo going Into the question . before the _. _htuge ; he _adminietcred a sharp reproof ta Mr _Trelawny , and exposed the _. fallaey of bis a « ertion , that . Ireltnd , was not sufficiently taxed ; The whole landed property of _^ _thW- ' country did not exceed £ 13 , 250 , 000 a . ye ' ar and the enormous mass of taxation levied upon' Ireland , - _Increared as it had recently
been by . the , imposition of the poor law , was levied on that landed property . . It ; would , therefore , be _urjast ; to subject It ts , new t axation . In the , shape , of a _iproperty tax . 6 ri th ' e > th of July last _. tbe . number of paupers in Ireland . ' Mceivlbji _rtitionB " _. '' _was _^ ' _s _. _' _e _OSlop _^ _. _^ _V _^ How _^ much ' In the pound was the' poor rate 5 ' asked an hon , member , ] Hewas asked how inuch the poor rate was in the pound ; a _very proper question /' asd one tifiich he wag totally Unable to answer , —( laughter )—aiid he would tell the house why _..-. The , poor-rate varied in its proportions in different districts ., . , In ., hU ownnelghbouthood _, there was one rate bn one bank _. qf , the ; i _^ ffey ,, and : ano _£ heron the ' . o _. iher ; , in one place it _^ yas 8 s ' _» ih the pound , in anbV ther three times that amount ' : so that he , was unable te _ahswer the gentleinah ' s qaeatfob . ' ' In the county of
Majo the population'in _vbna ' _dhumbeia was'i 00 , 000 , . 'Iri ' the month of March the number of able-bodied poor em- ' ployed in that county upon the public roads exceeded 180 , 000 ; and when they , ceased to , _beemployed , and the _Ra tion Aot . came into operation ,, the . number of the population receiving rations in that _county , was , 300 , 000 , being 75 par cent , of the entire popalatioB . , H _^ shoald . b ' e" giad to know how ithe poor law was to work ' _tiierei-, the . entire '' rental'bf tho county of Mayo btibg ' only ' £ 818 , 000—which would bo barely enough to' supply one ; pound a bead per annum forthe pauperism of the countyj ( Hear , bear . ) He called the attentionof _thoihouBe to * other extracts , from the . work ' ha had referred to .: . The ' _peor law , which-theihon . member ' , ( Hr Tfeliwhyj' eulo . gised , and . which he ( Mr Reynolds ) ' approved of ,
provided tbat . no-man in Ireland should be . entltled to outdoor relief who had more than a _. _quar _^ ter _of-an acrebf _, land . He hud an ' account of the number of meh _^ n the four provinces who held moire than a quarter' of ; an awe of land , and who _recelve'd pauper " rcliefi ' In' _ielneKrmen , 26 , 208 ; wbme ' n _^ _lSjOee , number ' of families , 87 ' 3 J 4 ' _. totalin . _Lelnster , 129 , 197 . ; _InrMuoster , men , 66 , 2 Q 4 \ wov men , 81 , 878 ifamilies , 152 _. 4 _U ; : totalfei Munster , 384 , 496 > tn _Conna--gl _» t ,. me 8 , - 8 G , « 7 _^ . . women ; 42 , 213 , , families ! . 248 , 192 ; total in , _C « nnaught , 396 , 902 . Yin . Uiiur _. ' prpBp ' e . ' rou s Ulster , men , 20 , 684 , women 14 , 40 * 4 , ' _famliles , _' _67 '' «|; 5 : total . in Ulster '" 102 , 043 , ' / The ' aggregate number are-- ! able-bodied men ' , ' 108 , 463 , women , ] 24 , ' 466 , aiid families * 74 , B 88 ; total Ib the four _provlBces , 862 , 806 ; - ThI _' waB thei amount ofthe population ocenpying upwards of a iqaarter of an acre oMand _^ and receiving pauper relief _ttndwere tbey to be told thatlandlerds could parry out ideal of improvements , In parks _andlandscapes , in such 1 bad
clrcumBtances _Propwty its duties and landlords I had their rights , legitimate right ' s and _llle-jitimate fights and if they were to bo Invaded he _feared--tiot feared , he _rejelced—that the cbhvefts to' repeal would _becomd er . cee dingly numerous , He ' thought he bad satisfied the house that the advice of the hon . member was' impractlcable , and , If impracticable , it was cruel to urge it The poor rate would amount to ten shillings in the pound of the entire rental of . the _. _lsland . , He did not object to tM . if it were required ; he thought the property of a countr . should _aupport the poor of that couutry _ ( hear h _£ l \ and he rejoiced that a _Htster ' _waBDntSih _^ _- _^ " ; the landlords ., The poorKas _^ _onF _^ li baCks _thblBrUlsh _ii _^^ w _^^ l _^ Jp principle , and sb long as he _JS to bt V rl 8 h - _rllsa -It in favour of the _prfile _^ f _hJ ' . h _^ ° uW With respect to Repeal he SS « _f _^ f » ' ' _' rived ub . iubitanti . ffi _lutereptaofboth c _uS'SvK'i _^ _^ _' _^ _^ P _^ oUdby _. tbi . c _^ _u _^^ _SSSJ
In Bribery To Carry Theact Of Union, But...
Repeal of _theTfnten . _"SoiroerCp _^' tEolie 7 wK' 6 _~* alked In favour _•/ nepMl w-reiharged . Mth _^ tt _' _easen ; but now a man might be ' ibnilclered ' _strlstlj loyal , aad yet ) be a Repe _^ culed the coloar ' ef a'bishop ' s wig , they wereeohiidered _guiltyoflmptetyj . btit matters _warealtered now , and , inetead of _merelydiicussing the colour of _ablehop ' e wig , that house had suspended ten if the bishops themielves ; ( A iangb _. ) Be _mllered tbat he possessed avory extensive knowledge of his country . He had travelled it from _eadto « nd by day and by night , and he eould _safoly assure the house thathe had discovered that every class of society in Ireland , from the peer to the peasant , felt that they wanted something—( _laaghter)—some
improvement , { Laughter , ) He understood the meaning of that laugh , _BBpeciaily when he considered . the debate in which they had so lately been engaged , but he-rejoiced at it . He liked a laugh ; there was something refreshing In it . ( Laughter . ) And after it people were more capable of discussing a question . Iri Dublin the general opinion was that there was ao chance . for tbat city except by . the restoration of their parliament , Thepeople there were almost to a man _farouraWe to Repeal , andhis ( Mr Reynolds' ) presence in that house was a significant evidence of that fact . ( Hear . ) They felt tbat In that house the _sju _' _estlon had never received fair consideration ( hear , hear ); but they believed thatit was likely to receive favourable consideration now , for though he bad heard , before ho entered that house , that there was strong party feeling there , he had found none . ( Hear , hear . ) He understood there were two sides to
that house before he entered it , but be found there was only one now , ( Laughter . ) There appeared ts be a total absence of party feeling ; anil he could see evidence in the house that gentlemen were beginning to tbink very seriously that this question ought , at all events , to be well considered . ( Hear , ) He believed , in his conscience , that the strength and stability ef this empire were involved in the Repeal ef the Union , ( Hear . ) He trusted that ' the reasonable conrie proposed by the hoa . member ( Mr O'Connor ) wonld be agreed to by the house , and that a committee weuld be appointed . He had wished , certainly , that ths _questioa should have been Introduced ia a different shape ; and , whatever might be the fate of the motion before the house , he hoped that tome hon . member would test the opinion of the house by the introduction of a billon the subject . ( Hear . hear , )
Dr _Bowawre had intended to addreis the house on this subject , not because he thought it a very pressing or important question , but . because itwas likely to become so from the ; state of feeling prevalent in thecountsy . ; He could gather , hoTuverj from various , _indic ' af tions _enthepartb ( the _boute , that they ' _wereanxieas to proceed to more practical measures ; and he would therefore not trespass further upon their attention , ( Cheers , and cries of Divide . ' ) ' ' . . MrB , B . BocHE ; said that , repr * _-enting so ; large a constituency , _^ . he _( could , not . give " a ' ' silent . vote . ; 'The grounds upon _> hlc' _^ _fiejyvocat « tl ' Repeal ' were ijfb lb nuii _^ er . The first _wati : ' a _listbrlcal fact , Mt was a _his ' toricat _fact _' that th ' e _imperial'legislature had " always misgoverned Ireland , even ' when the attempt _hsd been made tb govern tlie country properly , 'practically it had
failed for want , _ef _acquaistance with the people . - " for for'i _y-seven years parliament bah had unchecked control _overthedestiniesoJ Ireland , ' and the results _weM verty' and _dtscohtenl _in " every" " thftpe ; ' ¦ ' * Those' English _members who _asBfamed to gbvera Ireland , and would not permit them to debate hergrievanoeB , might depend upon it tbat . they would nOt : carry ! _thlags their own way , < Two parties could play atithe game of obBtrictlon . They were now in a time of peace and a ' time of prosperity , but the time might come when the _BMrices of the people of Ireland would be ' wanted , atd then it Would be their time to turn round ' and ' say / ' fight your own' battles ;' He ( Mr Roche ) should be _sbrry'if "that state of things should occur / but as an honest man he was hound to say that if they refused to redress ; Ireland's grievances ' , - the day might come when , Instead of finding her a ' friend , they might find her an open and declared enemy . "
Major Blacxaii , _said'if this motion ka'd beeu brought forward tinder other _e'lrcuniBtances he might have been disposed to vote for it . -But he' _^ a _* l bound to _censlder the circumstances under which it was brought forward , ' Hohad'nofaith _InthepatriotUm of the h ' on . member for Nottingham , and he did hot _thlrik his epBduot in that house had been calculates very _gwatly ' tb ; _add-lustre to the Irlsh ' name . '' But ; - indeed ; _'if'tWrewere' no other considerations ; the'eburie _^ -pursuedby the hbn , member inreBistlng the very moderate request of-the' Heine Secretary to postpone his" motion would have alone indueed him ( Major Blackall ) to _oppoBe' It . YThe government might fairly , fake his own " and'other memoerB' votes that night ' ns'indications of whether or hot they were prepared to give the gbverniaenta 'factions'opposition ; ( Hear , hear' ) For hiB own part , he must candidly say thathe thought some measure of csercion aecessary at the pre » ent time ' . ih Ireland . / ' '' _"•'
• MrM . O'CoNKELi thought the arguments of tho hon . member ought to be _cenclusive fn favour of the present motion . They were to judge men by ' their acthras _\ and what they did on' tho floor or that vbonse-- >( ironical cheers)— and when they fonnd anadvocate -. in ; the . hon . member for Nottingham , he felt bound to accept his measures In preference to those of a government who offered them a coereien bill instead of repeal . The hon . member for Tavistock , who had spoken that night , knew evidently infinitely , more about Queen ' Pomare and her wrongs than about Ireland and . Uie sores that were rankling in the heart of tha peopleof that country ... WaB Ireland to submit to a course of legislation : from persons so ignorant as the hon . member f There was the hon , mem . ber for Bolton ( Dr Bowring ) , He knew something—at
least he thought he did—of every country in the world ; but of Ireland he knew so little that he could not sum . mon ap courage enough to descant upon her grievances . Ho ( Mr O'Connell ) remembered _wheq the . first coercion bill was passed . It was the first Irish measure after the Reform Act . The same party was in power again ; but they ' had commenced their career with / a ' _bad _' omen ; they began the first session of the" new parliament with an act of coercion for Ireland ; yet " the Irish' members were met by an almoBt'universal request to postpone the consideration of the present motion in order to allow the government tb follow up its former bad precedent . He could net consent to that course fte hoped the hon . member for Nottingham would be supported by a considerable uumbor of Irish me tuber ' s ; -He warned the government _dgninst persisting : in thecourse _' they were
pursuing -, 'it would hurl them from' _pewer as , it had done their predecessors . The Irish members _^ were-charged with quarrelling ' among themselves ; but as soon as they forgdt all private ' dissensions , to' protect' Ireland 'from oppression , they ' were turned oh and taunted by the hon . member for Tavistock for uniting and forgetting former differences . ' But , if they could net'get justice , they would prevent oppression ; ; at all events , it should not be itheir fault if justice was not obtained . They had eften been told that ' the house was sick of hearing the ' Irish howl _. _'lot them beware bow they changed it Into a- ' war cry , ' ( 'Oh 1 oh !) Lot them consider in what a position the country stood with regard to " Its internal defences ; tbey knew on wbat a slight thread hung the peace of the continent ; aud if they wished to be strong , let them lay aside coercion bills and conciliate Ireland . { 'Divide , _dlvidel'V " ' ¦ ' ¦ . - .
Mr _FieiN denied that any measure for coereion waB necessary . As to the question' of Repeal , he contended that it ought to be fairly and fully discussed , since fully seven ou t of the'nine millions of the Irish population were : deeply interested in thesubjeot . For himself , while he wholly depreciated a national severance of Ireland from England j he considered that a Repeal ofthe Act of Uuion would be benefiolal to both countries , 'for theinterests of England were intimately connected with tbe prosperity of Ireland . As ; for the connexion between the countries _beitig affected by the Repeal of the { _Ualon , he though that that wat merely a bugbear raised up by those who were inimical to the _proBperlty of both ; ( 'Question , ' : ' Divide /) He' complained ofthe Way In which the affsirsof Irelaud were conducted In the Brl .
tteh House of-Commons ,-manyImportant ;! _billsbeing pasted at the close of the session after the great majority © f Irieti _memhers had "left town ; ' : "f ? orihiB _" i " the'bniy remedy was a domestic _parlibmehtj and he trusted that In time that ' propoBition would receivethe attention ofthe house . ; ! ( The hon . metober frequentl y referred to Boine notes he held _inhls hand ; -and was ' _asicobetantly _Intsrrupted by ' tries of * read ' read / and loud laughter . ) ' He _jwouia not _beputdown by-clamour , ' but if again _interru pted would move an adjournment of ' the house . _J _jOrlesof'Oh _^ _BSr , bar , ' and other exclamations here j became bo frequent as to vender ' _the'hohjmembert'fur . _itberrcmarliBwholly _^ Inaudible ;) -: ' ?<< _- _••(?;! _,, _., _-.: j : The interruptions ' : cbri « Buing , 'thehon _/ member conoliided by moving the adjournment of the debate . ( Cries
' . -J ' ft / _tl . -t . . 1 t _wr . .... .. . - . . . 1 ; _<' Oh , ehl ,, Hear /; and «; Adjourn . ') ; _-: : j ; 'Mr' _^ , WAWEa— -The s peech of the hon . > member for ; Cork ; ani ' that' of the hon ; member for Tralee _^— " _- { Criee , efVOrdeVl' _> _andiSA '( iJburn . ') _" ¦'¦ " < _p j .: . ¦ :.., \ ¦ Mr FA'tfAK appealed te the Speaker to put the question ; 6 f adjournment . '' The motion- having been made , it was not _competent he _appreheaded , until it . was decided , to _sebntlnue the debate . ( Hear , hear . ) _,: . The Spe ' _akeu understood that the hon . gentleman , the nember for Cork , having niovod thai the debate be ad . jourried , the hon . member for Nottingham rose to second the motion , ' ( Cheers and laughter , ) ¦¦ ¦ ¦¦ ' ¦ '• ¦ _¦ •; . ¦ j ; Mr ' _'WAtm- again rose , but it appearing that hia object was not to second the motion , he was Inter _, runted by : " * Y
Mr E . B . _Roohb , who seconded the motion' that the debate be now adjourned , The SreAKtR then put the ' _que _Btlon , when _; ¦ J *!* - _? v t _" _^ i Bppreher _^ * *• - question that the debate be adjourned having been put , it Was ' open to the hon . member for Nottingham W speak to that question , ' ¦ ; - ' .. _» •¦ . ¦ ; . ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ _:-..- _..,-. _,. _, ' .,, . ' Mr _Waitik aaid the hoh . member for Cork and other hon
_^ f gentlemen on the same _' _slde had gratified thebouBo with their opinion as to the qualifications _pf the Irish people for self-government ,- He had _^ : always' understood that one great ' and necessary qualification' for self-government was business _habite ; but , judging from the specimens of _buBUieBS habits exhibited by some Irish members during the present debate , bo should say thej were as flit for _selMeglslation as the blacks . ( Cries of ? Oh ; eh ' . ' ) ' < In fact , the blacks had a proverb that , 'If nigger were not ' nigger , Irishmen would be nigger , ' ( Cheers , laughter' and cries of' Ohbt ' ' )
, . . Mr ' ?? _'P'Cb ' _NNBlii rose to order . He' appeakdto the chair whether It was _cbnfllsten ' t with order that this buffoonery _shoul-l go bnt' . r The _""JBAKBa _^ -The ; hon . member for Kllkonny is out
In Bribery To Carry Theact Of Union, But...
of erder in applying the word buft- _cvonery _^ _fte _'bi _^^ _tloh of " any hon . member . ' ( Hear , hear . ) - ' Mr J . _O'CoHMiiwIbow _. _Blr , _toaajthing w - _jj eh fall frem you—I therefore beg to retract the _wotawvi !! you have decided was not in order , and which I « i uttered under the influence of the strong feeling exolw !? in my mind at hearing Irishmen and Irish meml « spoken of as they have heen by the hon , number n «« lite . ( Hear . hear , ) wt WMr WiHEa _reeumei—The proverb he had _qgobwas from an eminent _autherlty—that authority \ J Bishop Barclay , and a distinguished Irish bishop . 1 % _^ * hear . ) To judge by the speeches they had heard dark ' that debate , one would imagine that the subject of IxiJh grievances aad Irish distress were quite new te th house , and that hon . members could never have heard ofthe exactions of _son-acre or of the system of tw meats before—whereas the fact was that there waf _•» who hsd not heard those
one present questions dis . cussed hundreds of times . But whatever might be th 6 weight and importance of these subjects—aud that thev were important he did dot deny—this waB not the titan to bring them under discussion . The house had met for a different purpose , viz ,, to protect tbeliveB of tbe people of-Ireland from systematic assassination , an were they to be told tbat tbey were not to take mea . _sures for preventing murder until tbey should have in . quired into all the grievances ol Ireland ! ( Cheers _) What would hare been laid if , when it pleased _Pio * i dence to visit that country with famine , and _asBistanoa was called for to keep the people from starring , if English members had replied— ' We will not give a far . thing until we bare examined into the cause ofthe potato r _* t 1 * ( Hear , hear . ) Let these who , when money was the question , would admit of no delay , but whose cry was continually give I give 1 be consistent now and allow parliament to afford protection to life before enter .
ing into matters which were of a less urgent nature . ( Cheers . ) He concurred with ids hon , colleague , that for ordinary crimes , ordinary laws were sufficient , bnt an organised system of assassination was no ordinary crime . ( Hear , hear . ) We must ( _isidtbe hoa . mem . ber ) deal with the murderer and the assassin as Dr Johnson said madmen ' should be dealt with—knock them down first and reason with them afterwards ( Hear , hear . ) ' We must supplant those rough rug . _beaaed kerns ; Whieh lire like venom , where no venom else , But only they ; hath privilege to live . ' ( Cheers , ) HrE . B . Roche observed that the hoa . gentleman ' s
speech partook very much of the spirit of thoie envenomed articles against Ireland wbich appeared from time to time In a certain dally newspaper , and whieh cast vitriol rather than oil upen the troubled waters of Irish grievances , ( near , hear . ) But the hon . mem . ber's speech , though remarkable for its smartness , was not to the point , ' which was , whether er not the debate should be adjourned . ( Cheers . ) His hon . ' friend , ths member for Cork ,- who was ' well acquainted with Ire . land , had been ' most ungenerously and improperly inter _, rapted in his addresB _, end unless he was allowed to proceed be hoped he would press his motion for the adjournment . ! ( Hear , hear , andcriet ' of _Gooh . ' )
. _MrO'GoaiiAH MAnoK should in that case more as an amendment'that the hon . member for Cork be called upon to continue his address . ( Loud laaghter . ) "• Hefelt it due Wan Irish member to acknowledge the admirable attention which , up to the present evening , bad been shown to Irish members generally ,-since the meeting of parliament . ( Hear , hear' ) It was due to English members to acknowledge with -gratitude the spirit of fair play they had hitherto shown to Irish ' members , and he hopedlhey would continue their generosity to the boh . memberfbr _C-trkfora few moments . ' Tbey should remember too that interruptions often renewed those energies which , if left to themselves , boob exhausted themselves ; ( A laugh . ) :
' Sir Q _. Obey said tba" hon . member who last spoke had done but justice to the desire of the house generally , to give a fair and patient hearing to every hon . member so long as he confined himself within the subject ef debate _. And until the bon . ' member for Cork had occupied the _htuse for a very long time In an address which was in . te ' rrupted by many very long pauses , owing , be supposed , to the hon .: member ' s . want of knowledge ef the usages ef the house , every attention was paid to him . He ha i _nodoubt , also , that if the hen . member would resume hit addresB and confine himself within moderate' limits , the'house would continue to give him its attention ,. ( Hear hear . ) ' •'
Mr J . _'O'Connem ,. — I do think the right hon . baronet has nottreatedmy hon , friend quite fairly —( Hear , hear , and cries of ' . ph ! ' )—considering , that he is a new member . ( Hear , hear . ) As to what has fallen from the hoc , member , for Ennis , I can only suppose that he has been bo absent from the house ai to ' have forgotten what has been th » courtesy usually observed towards Irish members' ; but-I have .-myself been sixteen years a member . of . this house , ; _audil am bound to . say that in no previous parliament have I witnessed such an _incltnatitnto prevent and . to crash Irish discussion as has been exhibited this night . ( ' Oh , oh 1 ' ) The most indecent interruptions have been offered by a number of members collected on each Bide of the bar to those who
have come here to discharge their duty to their country under the most painful circumstahces , ( Hear , hear . ) Are we to be hunted down because we do not choose to lay our country at your feet , tobe trambled on at your will' ( Hear , hear , and cries ef' Ob ! ' ) Tou think Ireland will be submissive : ( 'Oh , oh ! ' ) 3 fy decided conviction is , that I have not yet witnessed any parliament in which there has been such intolerance exhibited . ( ' Oh , oh !') Aud I hope my hon . friend will persist iu bis motion to adjourn the debate , if it iB only to mark our indignant sense of the treatment he has experienced . ( Hear , hear , and cries for Mr Fagan . )
Mr Fa _« an said , that if be thought he had used a single expression that could have justly called forth the interruption he had experienced be would instantly hare apologised to the house ; but he was not aware tbat he had done te . ( Hear , hear . ) If he had not been interrupted his speech would long since have been concluded . It was not , 'however , his intention to intrude himself any further upon the house . The feelings of the people ef Ireland were exeited upon the subjeotbf repeal , and they . were determined to have a domestic Legislature * . but he waB a peaceful man , and his principles were those of moral force alone ; aad , therefore , he always advocated that the battle of repeal should he fought within , the walls of Parliament . ( Hear , hear . ) He bad no wish to show any angry feeling on this occasion , and , with the leayo of the house , hewas quite willing to withdraw his motion fir adjourning the debate , _: The motion for adjourning the debate having been withdrawn ,
; Mr _O'CoNNoaroBe to reply . Ho said , the admirable tactics of her Majesty ' a government in confining that debate to one _aide _. had left him little to reply to . The right hon . Home Secretary , appeared to misunderstand his ( Mr O'C ' s ) motive in alluding to the number of Irish labourers , who , for want of work at home , flocked tothe English labour market , and by their compulsory competition , caused a diminution of Wages here ; He ( Mr O'Connor ) did not reasons ©; hedid not deny the right of his countrymen tecome here in search of labour ; but what he said was , induce them to remain at home at remunerating wages , applied to the cultivation of their own soil , thereby enabling them to produce food to exchange with you for ' your manufactures—( hear , hear ,
)—instead ' of continuing as competitors against their English brethren , and a tax upon the poor rates , imposed upon English landlords . ( Hear , hear . ) Tho observation of the hon . member for Tavistock had been sufficiently replied to by his honourable friend ,, with one single exception , and that was his denial of Irish taxation , being commensurate with English taxation , while the' fact was , that to Irish poverty , and net to ministerial clemency , they owed this exemption j it being a fact , that in a poor country , the slightest tax would amount to a prohibition of the taxed- articles . ( Hear , hear . ) With respect to the - hon . and gallant member for _Longford , who undertook to deliver a stricture on his ( Mr O'Connor ' s ) policy and
patriotism , he had only to say tbat his censure passed by him as the idle wind , while he was at a loss to discover any valid _grounds'f or his opposition to the motion , he had submitted to tbe house . What difference was there between an Irishman representing an English borough , and an Englishman representing an Irish county . ( Hoar , hear . ) But he was not surprised at the anger of the hoa . gentleman , and it was a full confirmation of the' propriety of his motion , as in the outset , ke announced to the house , that one of his principle objects in taking an early discussion upon the question was to test the . new-fledged repeal members ; and if he ( Mr O'Connor ) was rightly informed , the hon . gentleman was one those . ( Hear , hear ) And he now begged to inform tbe hon .
gentleman , that while he allowed the most perfect license to all to criticise his ( Mr O'Connor's ) conduct and action , that , at the same time , he would not he driven from hi 9 _oaurse . ( Hear . hear . ) He ( Mr O'Connor ) had sat in that bouse in more irritating and tempestuous times , and it was his pride to say that never had he offered the slightest interruption to any hon . member , nor had one word ever escaped him tooffend , insult , or wound , the feelings of any man . ( Hear , hear . ) And he begged to assure the hon . and gallant gentleman that he should , in future , insist upon the same rule being observed towards him ( Mr O'Con * nor . ) ( Hear , hear . ) Hia hon . friend , the member
fi _> r Bolton , who , " uponrising , appeared to have been mesmerised—( cheera and laughter)—he certainly should not attempt to follow that hon . gentleman through his long , able , eloquent , and elaborate argument . ( Cheers and laughter . ) And now for a word of observation upon what fell from his bonourable colleague . That honourable " gentleman bad amused the house with a nigger story , ana Mr O'Connor would tell him one in return . The question of flogging the Irish was uppermost in the honourable gentleman's mind , and he indulged us with an exhortation . A nigger on board sbip , ' « about to be flogged , when the humane captain was _, ( Completed in ; the Fifth Page . )
Printed Fey Dougal M'Gotvan, Of 16, Great Wmiam' Dr.**.' Havmnrl'gt. In Thn'fiit-R N* "Westminster, At W"
Printed fey DOUGAL _M'GOTVAN , of 16 , Great _WmiaM ' dr . ** . ' Havmnrl'Gt . in _thn'fiit-r n _* "Westminster , at W"
¦ Office, Snthesame Street And Parish, F...
¦ _Office , _Snthesame Street and Parish , for tbe _rrppne _" ; FEARGUS . O'CONNOR ,- Esq ., M . P ., and _P" _^ , by Wiilum _Hi--viTT , of . Ko . , 18 , Charles-str eet , W » _don-street . Walworth , la th e parish ef . St . Mttry _^ " _^ ngtbn _, in ' the Comity of Surrey , at the Offlce _, r o . *' Great _WindmUl-sfreet . Haymarket . in the Cityo . l " mjnirter , _---Sat- * jrdas / , 'Decemb 9 r lltb , 1817-
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), Dec. 11, 1847, page 8, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse2.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/ns3_11121847/page/8/
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