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. OF IHE -.— . ' j^D CONFERENCE
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" AND NATIONAL TRADES' JOURNAL. . . ¦ i
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in - — . . — ¦¦¦ ¦ ~ ii VOL. IX. NO. 422...
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protection ot^ie^ittem r society, —L^o3}...
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
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. Of Ihe -.— . ' J^D Conference
. OF IHE -. — . ' j _^ D CONFERENCE
CAR P £ XTKrlS' HALL , MANCHESTER , Mosday , Dec . 8 , 1845 . At a meeting of delegates held In the above Hall , Mond av the Sth of December , 1845 , it was moved { "Sir Cu _' f & v , and seconded by Mr . Dixon , that Mr . _chMrin _« rton be appointed the chairman of the conf rence- ° Mr . Ilobson moved as an amendment , that _ST M'Gratn *•* -- a omie chairman . This proposi rnn was objected to on the ground that Mr . M'Grath , ot being a delegate , could not sit as chairman ; the _ame ndment was therefore withdrawn .
_j [ r . Sherrington having taken the chair , ercuen iials were delivered in from the following places : — ; Mr . Gilbertson , from Carlisle _, jlr . James Brown , from Preston . 3 lr . Sherrington , from Scotland . 51 r . Hobson , from Huddersfield . Mr . Knight , from Lambeth , Mr . Shaw , from Leeds . Sir . G . W . Wheeler , from Rouen , _Boulag- » _, an Reading , Hr . Saunders , from _Nottingham . Messrs . Dixon and Leach , from _Manchester .
Messrs . Cuffay , from Westminster ; _srad Taylor , _frcja Ashton , though unprepared with their _credential vrere allowed * ° take their seats . Mr . Cuffay moved that a committee of three he app ointed to draw up rules for the gnidar . ee of the _conftswicc ; Mr . Hobson seconded the resolution . Mr . G . W . Wheeler moved , and Mr . Dixon seconded , that the conference assemble every morning , during _itssiittngs , at nine o ' clock , and adjourn at twelve , to _re-assemble at two , and adjourn for the day at five . After the credentials of the delegates had been handed in , and standing orders had been agreed upon , Mr . O'Connor rose and said : —
Mr . Chairman and Gentlemen—I consider the present the most fitting time to offer to the conference an analysis of my own views upon the several questions that are likely to he submitted to the conference . I regret that severe indisposition has compelled mc to rely more upon what I have casually gathered from my brother directors , than a more close conference with them would have put me in possession of . Gentlemen , but for this circumstance , which I could neither foreseen or obviate , I would very naturally have devoted the short time allowed to mc , before the meeting of conference , to have prepared a fall digest of my opinions . Under all the circumstances , I have thought it to be the wisest plan to reduce what I had lo say to writing , and I now beg to submit the result of my own thoughts to your consideration . Gentlemen , I shall commence with the
OBJECTS . The object of the association is to locate its members upon the land , whereby the working classes may beafforded an opportunity of judging of the real value « f their labour in a free market .
THE MEAXS . The means by which the association proposes to realize the object in view , are by purchasing land in the wholesale market , and when purchased , to subdivide it into the most suitable allotments for the use of individual members ; and when so subdivided and leased , iu perpetuity to the -members , then to mortgage or sell the reserved rent , to enable the trustees to make further purchases , with a view to the location of more of its members , and so on , till all have been provided with their respective allotments according to their several amounts . Thus , the means are to be realised by co-operation , and the object is to be achieved by the adoption of such rules , and their rigid application in economising and fostering the means of the society , as this conference shall devise .
RULES . Perhaps my remarks , under this head , may be more properly considered as a running comment upon the object , means , and prospects of the society ; and first in importance stands the great question of legal protection—enrolment . Gentlemen , as far as I can collect the general opinion of the members , it is decidedly in favour of enrolment _, and therefore I am bound by my duty to the body , as well as by an interest in the success of the plan , which will be best served by promoting confidence , to abandon and forego all my own prejudices upon the subject of enrolment .
The legal gnarantce given to the members under enrolment are very great , while the peeuniaiy ad . -vantages cannot be lost sight of . The legal advaniages are , firstly , ihe priority of claim , which the law gives the association , in cases of the death or bankruptcy of any of the officers having the custody of monies , property , or securities of the society ; the assignment of counsel by tl . e court , and also _ofsolici tor , free of expense , in cases of dispute arising between the members and their officers . The pecuniary _advantages are partly embraced in the legal , as well as
exemption from all stamp duties ; and when the questions of transfer and leasing are taken into account , and supposing a solicitor to charge two guineas for a long stamped rigmarole of a lease , and suppose the society , from first to last , to number 10 , 000 , here is of itself as saving , from enrolment , of 20 , 000 guineas , independently of all other savings . Gentlemen , this is one ofthe great means at the disposal ofthe working classes—co-operation ; and it is by this means chartered societies , whether upon the high seas or the high road , are enabled io beat down all individual
competition . Next to enrolment , gentlemen , comes a wise application of the means to the end ; and first in importance , to this branch , conies the thing promised for tiicthing paid . The thing paid is £ 210 s . ; the thing promised is two acres of laud , ofa specified quality , a cottage _thaijeosts £ 30 in building , and £ 15 , as capital , to each member , when located , to carry on operations . _ICow , Gentlemen , you will see at once what per se , or considered alone , without its relative contingencies . would appear an impossibility , namely , that a society should give each of its members £ 35 , and only receive £ 2 10 s . as the price ofthe whole . Gentlemen , you
-will at once see that much of thesuecessof thesociety must depend upon the _undiminished value of the thing bought and to be sold again . The prospects of all succeeding occupants will mainly depend upon the terms upon whicli the first drafts are located . Sow , gentlemen , as all should be bound to all , and as all should have , as nearly as possible , equal rights ; and as those first located will decidedly be best off . we should show , to all expectants , that the earlier rcaliza . tien ofthe hopes of some are , in somedegrce , compensated by the certainty of the object being achieved by all . To this end I suggest the pro ricty of the £ 15 advanced standing as a lien against all who receive it at an interest of 5 percent , added to the reut , until
everr member of the association shall have been _located upon his allotment . Gentlemen , this will preserve and keep alive a continuoes brotherhood between those located and those to he located ; and those who arc postponed will have the satisfaction of getting 5 percent , for the money advanced ; and as the health of the society will be more aid more developed every day , we may conclude that those who are amongst the latest occupants villi have their reward in receiving their £ 15 , discharged of interest , as the premium for delay . Gentlemen , I do not propose that this 5 per cent , upon the £ 15 shall be sold or mortgaged , but that it shall be a reserved rent , always to revert back to the societt in one shape or another ,
and always for the purposes of the members . Gentlemen , the next apparent difficulty , with which * _y * a will have fo deal , will be the amount of rent to be pail by each ; but here I think the dullest will see _the _' _eapossibility of establishing any fixed rent except by « s » e , which does partake of as much fixity as you can insure . Thus , if you say that a member shall pas- £ v a-year for two acres of land that costs £ 40 , that is £ 20 en acre , and a house that costs £ 30 , you say as distinctly ; without stating the very fact , that tiie member who g" _« ts two acre 6 tuat costs * _< 50 _** or £ 30 an acre , shall pav _&• . TCar > and ihe member who gets _txco acres thai ccOts £ 30 , or £ 15 an acre , EhallonlypaT £ 410 s .
Gentlemen the next branch : of * _he SUD J ect to which I shall call your attention _» tothc question of amount ; whether two or four ; ' « 6 hai 1 beth < ; society ' s standard . For myself . 1 _* an Yer ? _™ appreciate the desire ofa rerson , with a * J _^ _£ efare V ' to _possess himself of that quantity of lai ' d . * _" ' _* he Supi osscs he may Lave the labour requi " » or lts cultivation in his own family ; and , thcrefoi _*» * am for allowing every member to exercise his own J £ - ment upon _ttfs head , while I would still enfort ° ' " inability ofa man , with a small family , to culth ' _* e en two acres to the _highest state of perfec tion '
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However , this is entirely a subject for the consideration of the shareholders themselves . The next point to which . I would direct your attention is one of considerable importance ; it is , as to whether selection of occupants shall be made by priority of payment or by ballot . Upon this point , counsel has only given his opinion in favour of priority , lest the laws made against gaming and lotteries should intertere with the enrolment : but upon being reminded that the cases so far differed , as regards our association , and those who purchased tickets , some with the certainty
ofgettmg blanks ; whereas , our rules provided prizes for all , although , the acquisition of them by some is postponed to a later period . Counsel , therefore , has merely given the preference to priority , lest the adoption of the ballot may lead to disappointment . For my own part I think the details to carry out the principle of priority would be much more cumbrous and difficult of management than those to carry out the ballot , and , therefore , I am decidedly in favour ofthe ballot ; while , of course , it will be understood that none are eligible to ballot except those who have paid up their full shares .
Gentlemen , the next branch of the subject to which I shall call your attention is the mode of carrying out our object by the purchase , sub-division , and sale of estates . Here the two means of realising further funds , either by mortgage , or sale , present themselves . In the one , I see not only difficulty , but disagreeable probabilities ; in the other , I see not only agreeable probabilities , but cheering certainties . For instance , we purchase , say one hundred acres of land , for £ 2 , 000 , and we expend £ 1 , 500 upon the erection of cottages , and pay £ 750 in the shape of advanced capital , at the rate of £ 15 io each member . Now , this makes a total of £ 4 , 250 , which , if we offered for sale , may be sold before the value of the plan was tested for twenty years purchase , or £ 5 , 000 ; whereas , if we kept the first allotment for two years , mortgaging it at
three-fourths of its value , at the end of those two years the application of the labour of fifty families to the 100 acres would increase the value of the purchase from twenty to thirty-three years , the highest rate of purchase that is given for landed security . I will explain it more familiarly to yon . If you attempt to sell as soon as you purchase , the purchaser will purchase at the then value of the land ; whereas , at the end of two years , what each tenant held for £ 5 ayear , asd which , mind , would be all that we could sell , would be worth £ 8 a year , or more , from the application of labour , and that £ 8 a year would be tlie purchaser ' s security for £ 5 a-year ; and for that he would give as large an amount , and larger , than for government security . Now , twenty years purchase for £ 250 a-year will be £ 5 , 000 ; and thirty-three years purchase would be £ S , 250 .
Gentlemen , these are the peculiar features of cooperation that I would impress upon your minds . I am , then , for mortgaging , in tfce first instance , and thereby realising , subsequently , as large a fund as possible for the benefit of the members—a benefit that must result from a fair testing ofthe plan ; and , mind , what has been done in the first instance may be subsequently relied upon by all future purchasers . Now , gentlemen , I come to a portion of my subject which never has been discussed by the public yet . I mean not only the probability , but the certainty , of our funds , or rather our security , being increased as follows : — Wc will suppose that 100 members are about to be located from amongst those who have paid up in full , and consequently the most wealthy .
"When the land is purchased the allotment takes place before the houses are built , and I think we may fairly presume that out of the 100 who have paid up in full , upon an average , each would expend £ 10 more upon his cottage than the society guaranteed ; that would increase the value of the property by £ 1 , 000 ; while it would not make the member , who had spent it , liable to any more than £ 5 a-year rent . This yon will find will be the strongest preservation ofthe link of brotherhood and membership , and will have the effect of proving to the poorest that the wealthiest , while they have been the first provided for , have not been discharged from the ulterior duty of lending themselves and their funds to the accomplishment of the general objects of all .
Gentlemen , these views have boon set out partially in many of my earlier letters ; now I condense them for your consideration , always bearing in mind , that though the society gives but £ 70 worth for what it charges £ 5 a-year , yet , in their individual capacity the working classes could not procure the same advantages for £ 10 a-year , or indeed at all , as there is no market open for such traffic . Gentlemen , I bag to keep your minds rivetted to this question of
incorporative power . I beg to remind you that societies , incorporated with the individual resources of a number of poor individuals , are enabled to compete with , and finally to overcome , all the competition of the wealthiest individuals . This is , then , our strength ; we overcome tbe law of primogeniture . We bring the raw material into the free labour market , and we offer it in competition with the slave labour price of wages .
Gentlemen , I am not inclined to treat any suggestion upon this subject lightly , provided it is made in a proper spirit ; and , therefore , I shall offer an observation or two on that emanating from Manchester . I mean the propriety of bringing the allotments up to a certain state of bearing by the expenditure of the promised capital , under judicous management , before the more ignorant of the occupants should enter upon the undertaking . If this is left to their own option , I not only have no objection to the prin ciple , but I further volunteer my services as their unpaid steward and instructor , deducting from their
original £ 15 capital , what has been judiciously expended in labour , and allowing them to take possession of their allotments in full bearing , aud when the fruits of my industry shall be ripe . Gentlemen , if my health permitted , I should have entered much more minutely into this important subject . I regret that my ten days'illness has deprived mc ofthe benefit of the counsel of my brother directors . In the short time that my recovery allowed , I have gathered as much of tlieir views , as I could , whereas , if I have misunderstood , or mis-stated them , they are at perfect likerty to object to what I have now offered , as this manifesto must be taken solely as my own opinion .
Gentlemen , I presume that you all have an equal interest , with myself _. in this gigantie _. national scheme , and if any have joined in the hope of possessing themselves of £ 15 for £ 2 10 s . paid up , and if the alterations , that I consider necessary in the rules , should alarm such speculators , I have that reliance upon you , gentlemen , that the dread of losing the gamblers will be more than compensated for by the establishment of that firm principle upon which the alteration will base the rights of the poorest , as well as the prior claim of the richest . Gentlemen , my object is , that no man should be discharged of hi .-liabilities to the association uutil every member of the body shall be first provided for , and that then the general savings from the co-operation of all , shall be equally , honestly , and honourably divided amongst
all . Before 1 sit down , I will read for you one of the _guarantees which enrolment confers , and one which , in a money speculation , should be courted by every officer who has aught to do with the funds of the society ; and , gentlemen , bear one thing in mind , and never lose sight of it , it is this—enrolment is o . _vlt _bexeficul to tiie _MEiniEns . If the officers had any notion of p laying the rogue , they would be for nonenrolment , as , then , the members would have no protection against their frauds . Enrolment , _thekefoke , is _ron the _MEMnEns ; xon-exkclmext is tor the ofhcehs . Gentlemen , before I sit down , I will read for you one of the advantages of enrolment . The act that I hold in my hand has the following provision : — " And be it fuither enacted , that if any p erson already appointed , or who may hereafter be appointed , to any office in a society established under
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the said recited act , or this act , and being entrusted with the keeping of the accounts , or having in his hands , or possession , by . virtue of his said office or employment , any monies or effects belonging to such society , or any deeds or securities relating to the same , shall die , or become a bankrupt , or insolvent , or have any exeeution , or attachment , or other process issued , or action , or diligence , raised against his lands , goods , chattels , or effects , or property , or estate , heritable or moveable _^ or make any assignment , disposition , _assignation , " or other conveyance thereof for the benefit of his creditors , his heirs , executors , administrators , or assignees , or other persons having legal rights , or the sheriff , or other officer executing such process , or the party using such action or diligence , shall , within fortj
days of the demand made in writing , by the order of any such society or committee thereof , or the major part of them assembled at any meeting thereof , deliver and pay over all monies and other things belonging to such society to such person as such society or committee shall appoint , and shall pay out of the estates , assets , or effects , heritable or moveable , of such person , all sums of money remaining due which such person received by virtue of I 113 said office or employment , before any other of his debts are paid or satisfied , or before the money directed to be levied by such process as aforesaid , or which may be recovered or recoverable under sueh diligence , is paid over to the party issuing such process , or using such diligence : and all such assets , lands , goods , chattels , property , estates , and effects shall be bound to the payment and discharge thereof accordingly . "
Now , gentlemen , there ' s a strong inducement to force me to get rid of all my prejudices against enrolment . There ' s protection , which nothing hut the law can afford . Gentlemen , there are other subjects , such as the appointment of trustees and directors , and their duties , the obligation of officers , and the question of finance , to whicli I shall take a fitting opportunity of directing yonr attention , with the view of making your laws as stringent as you can to enforce a just discharge of those several duties . I conclude , by once more reminding you of our power , which consists in onr incorporation ; and further reminding you , that the triumph of free trade
principles may result in our ability to purchase slices of the estates of the aristocracy at one-half their present value . 1 now remind you , that the rules , upon which this society has been established , were neither considered perfect or binding , aud the more you alter and correct them , if those corrections and alterations are calculated to give stability to your project , and security to the members , the better the members will appreciate the change , for they are a considerate and a thoughtful people . Gentlemen , I have now done more than I was justified in my present state ol health in doing—I sit down , leaving the question to your guardianship .
_AFTERKOON SITTING . Mr . Canning , from Wigan , not being furnished with credentials , was allowed to take his seat until his credentials were produced . Mr . Cutfay moved , and Mr . Taylor seconded , "That each motion be handed to the chairman , in writing , previous to its being put , and that the mover , and other speakers , be allowed ten minutes each , and the mover of the resolution five minutes in reply . Mr . Vallance , from Barnsley , produced his credentials , and took his seat accordingly . Mr . O'Connor moved , and Mr . Leach seconded , the following resolution : — " That the conference do now resolve itself into a committee for the purpose of considering the alterations to be made in the rules . " The motion , after discussion , was withdrawn for the present .
Mr . Ilobson moved , and Mr . 0 Connor seconded , " That , in the opinion of this conference , it is highly essential to the success of the-Chartist Co-operative Land Society that the rules should' be enrolled under the Benefit and Building Societies' Acts , inasmuch as such course will alone give security to the members , and limit the responsibility of all concerned to the extent of the society ' s operations . To this end the conference instruct the board of directors to pro cure sueh enrolment , with the name of the society remaining as it now stands , if that be possible ; but should the revising barrister refuse to certify with such name , the directors are further instructed to change the name to that of the National Co-operative Land Society . "
Mr . Dixon moved , and Mr . Shaw seconded , the following motion : — " That the directors be empowered to submit the rules , as agreed to , to Tidd Fralt , Esq ., for enrolment ; and in the event of the name , as it at present stands , being an obstacle , and in the event of Tidd Pratt refusing to enrol , that then an appeal be made , as provided by law ; and in the event of the name standing as an obstacle , that then the directors be empowered to confer with the several districts , through the delegates now assembled , with the view to taking the opinion of the members upon the subject . " Mr . CuftUy objected to the alteration of the name ; and should it not be possible to get it enrolled without its alteration , that the enrolment be not persisted in .
Air . _Lcac-h said , the object of enrolment was to guarantee the working classes from their being robbed by the middle classes ; for , although the name of the society is the Chartist Co-operative Land Society , yet its members were not confined to the Chartist body ; a large portion of its members arc not , and never were , Chartists . Under the present rules there is no remedy for the dishonesty of any of its servants ; not that he suspected any of them were dishonest ; but unless enrolment was conceded , it would be the destruction of confidence . Mr . Knight : The interest of the society requires that its rules should be enrolled either with or without the name . Mr . Vallance was instructed to support the enrolment of the society , if the name , and objects remained iu their present state .
Mr . G . W . Wheeler would not vote for the enrolment if the rules , if the objects , or the name were altered . Mr . Shaw would vote for the enrolment of the rules with or without the name . Mr . Brown : One portion of my constituents are in favour of enrolment , either with or without the name , while the other portion have instructed mc to vote against the enrolment , if the name was to be altered . Mr . Canning was instructed to support the enrolment of the rules at all events , the name being no object to his constituents . Mr . Leach moved the following ;— " That in the _opinion of this conference , the Land Society ' s rules should be immediately envolled , and that the board of directors be instructed to accomplish the same with or irithnnt the name . "
Mr . Doyle : ' 1 here arc a great number of persons waiting to join the _association , but who will not do so unless it is enrolled , as there is no guarantee for the henesty ofthe officers of the society , for although no officer lias at present absconded with any money , still that is no reason that they might not ; for these reasons he should support the enrolment . Mr . G . W . Wheeler moved , and Mr . Gilbertson seconded the motion— " that the rules be not . enrolled unless the name and objects are _rctaine'V ' Mr . Hobson : It is not in the power of Tidd l ' ratt to refuse the enrolment of the rules , even with the name as at present , provided those rules are in conformity with all the provisions of the Benefit Society ' s Act . The intentions of the society must be stated in the rules . In his opinion , the passing of the last resolution would be an act of suicide . On a division there
appeared—For Mr . G . W . Wheeler ' s amendment ... 2 " Mr . Dixon ' s 7 " The original motion S Mr . Hobson moved , and Mr . Cuffav seconded , a motion for the printing of Mr . O'Connor ' s statement _, which was carried unanimously . The conference then adjourned till nine o ' clock tomorrow morning .
TUESDAY _MORNING—DECEMiiEn 9 . Mr . Sherrington in the chair . Mr . Ilobson : There are several points in the statement of Mr . O'Connor that require explanation . If the system of priority is introduced , it will be necessarv to keep an account of payments , even to the fraction of ah hour . The conference are here to legislate against probabilities and possibilities . The ballot gives every man a chance to be located , for these reasons he would move , — "That , in the opinion of this conference , the mode of selecting occupants for the allotments , by ballot , from among those who have paid up their shares , is calculated to give the greatest amount of confidence to the members generally , because it precludes favouritism , and prevents all intrigue , fraud , or collusion " Mr . Smythe , of Bradford , seconded the motion ,
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as he considered it was the only way ~ to give stability _t-i the society . Mr . Vallance was of opinion that the system of priority would introduce great confusion into the management of the affairs of the society . Mr . Knight objected to the ballot , supported priority of payment , and moved , — " That priority of payment constitute priority of occupation ;" Mr . O'Connor : You will recollect that the opinion of . counsel was only against the ballot , fearing that it would render the society liable to the Gaming and Lottery Acts . One objection to the resolution was . to any . man balloting unless he shall have paid up his whole share . The conference were perfectly at liberty t / _j alter rules for the ' further : benefit ot the society . ; As to the question of priority , what
suoulu ue clone with those parties who had paid up at the present time . If you establish the " ballot for those who have already paid up , and priority of payment for those paying alter , it will cause great dissatisfaction among the shareholders . Mr . Taylor seconded the motion of Mr . Knight , and stated that the fraction of an hour could not be of that importance as it had been represented . Mr . M'Grath considered that the system of priority would not give general satisfaction . There were many obstacles to it which were insurmountable . How could it be applied to those who had already paid up their shares ? And when thirty or forty enrolled in different localities at the same time , how is their priority to be determined ? He thought the ballot the wisest plan ; it gave to all a fair chance , and
was _perfectly practicable , whereas the principle of priority could not be carried out with pneision , and it gave to capital a decided advantage over poverty . . Mr . Cuffay .: There is great difference between ballot and lot—the ballot is putting in , aud lot the taking out . The lot , by allotment , is the putting the names into an urn and drawing from them the prizes . A great deal depends upon priority . If the society be divided into sections then vote for priority . Mr . Wheeler : As far as he himself was concerned , he was most decidedly in favour of priority . The success of the society depends upon priority of payment . A great majority of members are in favour of priority of payment . There will be no difficulty in keeping the accounts , for , should it so happen that forty or fifty pay up in one day , the sooner the location would take place .
Mr . Clark : Mr . Wheelers plan cannot be carried out , and I deny that the majority ofthe members are in favour of priority . Mr . Leach : How can priority of payment be reconciled with justice . A man paying his threepence aweck is not in the same situation as a man who can pay the whole down . Mr . Dixon : A great majority of his constituents were in favour ofthe ballot . Mr . Canning was decidedly in favour of the ballot . Mr . G . W . Wheeler said that he should support the motion of Mr . Clark as the one most conducive to the interest of the shareholders , and the only one on whicli the conference could be consistent . Mr . llobson ' s principal objection is , that it invested a discretionary power in the hand of the directors ; but his
own plan is open to the same objection ; for it three districts were to be chosen , they would still have the opportunity of chosing which they would select ; but surely members were not going to elect to this office men in whom they had no confidence . Mr . Ilobson objects to the motion of Mr . O'Connor on the ground of the competition it would occasion , whilst the same objection applied to his own plan ; besides it tied up the hands ofthe directing body ; and they must be aware that land often realized a fictitious price , as many parties were compelled to part with land at a much lower price than its real value ; and from the uresent railway mania it was likely that the directors ,
if their , hands were not tied up , would probably purchase land much lower than the present market price . Mr . Ilobson had said a great deal about Irishmen and Scotchmen leaving their homes and coming to this country ; but if they did come it was because they could get a better living here ; and wherever a man could get ' a living that would be his home . Another advantage of Mr . Clark ' s _^ motion was that if 100 persons were located , coming from 100 different localities , it would give a greater impetus to the society . Men would say—Tom Smith was gone , and it will soon be my turn—which would be a groat inducement to many to join this society .
Mr . O'Connor moved that the conference resolve _itself into a committee , and that no speaker be allowed to occupy the time of the conference more than two minutes . Mr . Poole seconded the resolution . Mr . Brown : Ilis constituents were in favour of the ballot , unless the society was divided into districts , and then they were in favour of priority of payment . Mr . Poole : There will be . great injustice in priority of payment , unless the society is divided into dristricts . Mr . Harrington : Only one _placcfin Scotland is in favour of the priority . If the conference decide in favour of the ballot , a considerable portion of his constituents would retire from the society .
Mr . O'Connor : No person that cannot pay up his share in full will pay any portion of his money , if tiic time of closing the society is stated . The legitimate members and founder of the society have paid their money on the faith of the ballot . Mr . Cuffay : ilis instructions were in favour of priority . Did not _oeliovo that tho society being closed at a particular day would cause any diminution in the payment of shares . Mr . Shaw was in favour of the ballot . If priority of payment be allowed , those who were able would pay up , and swamp the whole concern . Mr . Leach moved that rule 10 should form part of the amended rules , with the addition that the society close its first _district when the society consists of 0 , 000 members . Mr . O'Connor seconded the motion ; where there is necessity for alteration do it , but * do not alter where unnecessary _.
Mr . Ilobson said , selection by ballot means precisely what the parties mean by election by lot . Lot means lottery , but the word being used might enable the revising barrister to bring in the acts of gaming and lottery to bear upon the question of enrolment . Mr . Doyle had heard some members ofthe London district complain that priority of payment would be attended with great injustice . Mr . Taylor : The man who comes forward and pays his whole money , is rendering a great benefit to the poorer payers . Mr . Saunders was in favour of priority of payment . Mr . Ilob-on : Objections raised by him had not been answered ; the principle of priority would entail great expense ; what objection to the ballot ? On a division there appeared—For the amendment 12 " Motion 5 A question arising as to the propriety of carrying out the last resolution ,
Mr . Ilobson said , it docs not follow that , having confirmed a principle , you should enter into all the details connected with it . Mr . Clark moved , that the selection of localities be intrusted to the board of directors . Mr . M'Grath seconded the motion : It was very unwise and very unjust to limit the exertion of the directors , for tlie rule did not compel a man to go upon the land , though successful . Mr . O'Connor repudiated the position in which Mr . Clark ' s motion would place the directors—no objection to incur any responsibility that the subscribers of the society imposed upon the directors The proposition of Mr . C . rk was premature . There was land enough offered for sale every day in the year , and it might be obtained in any district .
AFTERNOON SITTING . Mr . Clark said the reason of proposing the resolution was , that the directors would have better opportunities of knowing where land was lo be purchased —with some parties , situation was no object . He knew a party that wns willing to go within ten yards ofthe gates of hell so that he got upon the land . Mr . Ilobson : The onerous duties sought to be imposed by the conference on the directory is likely to produce angry feelings among the shareholders—they would be inundated with suggestions , and every little plot of land that was for sale would be forwarded to them—and unless that plot of land was bought it would produce great dissatisfaction and jealousy
amongst the unsuccessful . Divide the country into districts , and when sufficient money is in hand , draw- from those districts ; and if the first is not successful , go to the sceond , and so on . Most likely there would be no occasion to proceed further than the first , for there is always sufficient land in the market to be bought any day in the week . Those enthusiastic persons , who say that they would go ' within a few yards of the gates of hell so that they could get upon the land , would be the first to complain ol favouritism , if unsuccessful in obtaining the ballot . Mr . Smyth , in seconding the amendment , said , il the _p-resent motion was passed by the conference it would destroy all confidence in the directory , and give rise to the charge of favouritism .
Mr . Clark - . It has been already laid down , that no person shall be allowed to ballot unless he has paid up _Jn ' s share ; but , according to Mr . Ilobson ' s plan , if Yorkshire was the fortunate district , it might be years before those of the Manchester district would be located . Should wish to see land purchased , in the Hrst instance , in those districts where the most members were . Mr . Wheeler would support the views advocated by Mr . _Clarl- - ,
. Of Ihe -.— . ' J^D Conference
Mr . O Connor would suggest that , before the purchase of land in any locality , a ballot take place amongst all the members , and a majority should signify to the directors whether they would wish the land to be purchased . He was sure that the greater the responsibility vested in the members , the greater the satisfaction would be ; he moved the following resolttion : — "That when the sum of £ 5 , 000 shall be paid , the directors shall then proceed to ballot from amongst tho members who have paid up their _shai-es in full , and where the required number shall be so elected , that then the members , so selected , shall
proceed by such means as the majority shall agree upon , for the purpose of selecting a locality where the purchase of land shall take place , and the directors shall be bound by such decision . " Mr . Clark asked the question—would not a greater price be paid , for a small quantity of land than uhat for a greater quantity ? Mr . Ilobson : The amendment proposed by Mr . O'Connor is unwise . He would not like to sec the necessity for the shareholders , iu this society , to leave their homes . Mr . Wheeler opposed the adoption of Mr . O'Connor ' s amendment .
Mr . Poole said—Did the shareholders know where the land was about to be purchased , no doubt that even the threepenny shareholders would make a struggle to get the money to pay up their shares . Mr . M'Grath had heard nothing to alter his opinion , as to allowing the directors to have the choice of selecting the place for the purchase of the land . More obstacles ' would be created by Mr . Hobson s plan than that proposed by Mr . Clark . Mr . Vallance supported the proposition fcr enabling t he directors to buy the land . If this power was left in their hands , no doubt it would give the greatest satisfaction .
Mr . O'Connor : If the difficulties suggested against his amendment had weight , thoy told with a double weight against the plan of Mr . Ilobson . Mr . Leach : No doubt there was a great desire , among the shareholders , that the purchase of land should be near the places where they lived . The cost of removal to a distant portion would take away the object of the society . The parties who obtained the prizes ought to have a voice in the selection of where the land should be purchased . . He supported the amendment of Mr . O'Connor . There could be no difficulty in diyidings the country into districts . Mr . Guffhy : As far as England was concerned he wat a cosmopolite ; but the London shareholders do not expect to have land purchased for them in tho suburbs ; they are willing and ready to take their chance . He had a feeling for home , and if he gave way to his feelings , he should prefer the county of Kent .
Mr . Ilobson : By Mr . O'Connor ' s plan there would be no opportunity of getting at the opinion of the different shareholders . There were objections to his own plan . It has been urged , that it might be the lot of Manchester to be years before the members of that locality wouldhe located ; so that , in fact , it would be years , under any circumstances , beibrc tho oimro . holders of any locality could be located . . Mr . O'Conneor : The adoption of Mr . Ilobson ' s plan wonld make the directors a mere nonentity . . Mr . Leach : One ofthe principles of the People ' s Charter was , that there should be equal electoral districts , and as there would not be auy difficulty , under that document , in apportioning the country , in cases of elections , why should there be any difficulty in carrying it out in the land plan . Mr . Clarke : The directors are bound to pay attention to the wishes ofthe subscribers . Mr . Ilobson ' s
plan cannot be carried out , because it will not only give priority to persons who have paid up their shares , but also to those who have not paid up . Mr . Taylor : The price of land never can , nor never ought to be , an object with the directors . Mr . Dixon said : To buy land for twenty-five cannot be accomplished at the same price as if the purchase was to be made for £ 100 . He proposed to divide the number of shareholders paid up into four districts . The removal of parties from home would have material _ci-Fect upon the objects of the society . Mr . Doyle said , that Mr . O'Connor was going directly in opposition to all his former statements and writings ; as he had _formerlystated _thafyhe purchase of a small quantity of land would cost more , in proportion , than that of a larger quantity . The best possible plan to adopt was to leave thcselectionof land to the directors . Mr . O'Connor explained .
Mr . Ilobson : There-never was a subject that was not open to objections , and with a view to embody the ideas of the members of the conference , he would move the following resolution * — " The directors ' shall , in tlieir purchasing and drafting of occupiers , be guided , as far as practicable , by the principle of providing allotments for the members , so as to render it unnecessary for a family to remove far from home _. To this end , when the necessary amount of capital is so subscribed , they shall classify tho members who have paid lip their shares into sections , guided by locality , ana before they commence operations they shall place as many slips of paper as there are in a suitable vessel , each slip having the name of a section written on , and all being folded up alike . Then
an indifferent person shall beappointedtodraw these papers out of the lot , and in one of the localities so drawn shall the first purchase be made ; if practicable , preference being given to the first drawn . Out of the members residing in , or contiguous to , such district , who have paid up tlieir full subscription , shall the occupiers of this particular plot of land be selected ; and the same rule shall be observed to regulate the locality ot all the subsequent purchasers and allocatons . " It is not necessary ) that the directors should give notice of the place where they intend to purchase . By giving notice of intention to purchase it would cause greater competition amongst the bidders . Prudence , therefore , would suggest the propriety of the directors keeping it a secret as to when and where thoy were coming into the market .
Mr . Outlay objected to the alteration of Mr . Ilobson ' s motion . Mr . M'Grath : Mr . Ilobson seems to dread competition , and no doubt competition is to be dreaded ; there is a great many who would gladly sing the requium of the land society . Mr . G . W . Wheeler said , that the motion of Mr . Clark was the only safe plan that could be adopted . You must know when to get the land . Land is not always either let or sold at its real value . Home is that where a man can get an honest living . Mr . Saunders was opposed to the plan of Mr . Ilobson . They had heard a great deal about home , but it was impossible for the conference , or for the directors to legislate , so as to locate every shareholder near the place of his nativity ; he should , therefore , support Mr . Clark ' s motion .
Mr . Leach : It should be an instruction to the directors that they should purchase the land near the residences of the successful candidates . It would be a stronger inducement to shareholders to support the society if they knew that the land would be purchased in or near the several localities to which they belonged . . Mr . O'Connor insisted that the ballot must take place before the purchase was made . Mr . Vallance : We have been taught to believe that the rules of the society required but little variation ; and , therefore , he should vote for Mr . Clarke ' s motion . Mr . O'Connor would withdraw his amendment if Mr . Clarke would embody it in his motion . Mr . Ilobson ' s amendment 3 Original motion as . araended 13
Mr . Clarke , having agreed to amend his motion according to the suggestion of Mr . O'Connor , the following resolution was submitted to the conference : — " That the selection ofthe locality , where the purchase of land shall be made , be entrusted to the board of directors , it being imperative upon them to make such purchase in the district where the greatest number of members , who have paid ' up their sha : e « , may be resident . "
WEDNESDAY SITTINGS . Mr . Sherrington in the chair . The roll having been called , and the minutes read , Mr . Clark moved the rescinding of the resolution come to yesterday , inasmuch as it would compel the directors always to purchase the hind in those districts were the greatest number of paid members resided . Mr . M'Grath , in seconding the motion , said that no doubt they would be charged with inconsistency , in asking the conference to undo what they had done ; but the directors saw great difficulty in carrying out the resolution , Mr . Wheeler objected to the rescinding of the resolution . The Chairman said that the directors , by Mr . Ilobson ' s plan . would bo too much confined in their operations . He considered that the resolution proposed by Mr . Clark , and carried by the conference yesterday , was the best that could be adopted .
Mr . Ilobson moved that the house resolve itself into a committee , and continue in committee until the whole of the principles be settled . Mr . Cuffay objected to the motion . Mr . Leach " seconded the motion . On a division , there appeared for going into commmittee 7 Against it 5 Correspondence was read from Wigan , containing
. Of Ihe -.— . ' J^D Conference
tiic credentials of Mr . Canning ; Mr . _VomU-u of Warwick ; Mr . Calladine , of Hucknal l lolkard Mr . O'Connor contended that the _ffptejto . . society could not be carried out unless _tf » . _^ tao » passed by the conference yesterday remained on the " MeSs . Clark and M'Grath ultimately withdrew thoir resolution . ..... _..- ___ ;„ _*^ is to
Mr . M'Grath : The abject of the directors make the rules as perfect as they possibly w _^ _j-- *»* did not wish the conference to stultify itself , an n eluded by moving " That _Great Britain he Wei into districts , to be distinguished by iNos 1 , 2 , d , AV ,, and that the directors be guided , .. m __ purcnasing land , by the majority of free members in tlie districts ; but land shall not be bought a secondtime ifl = any I district till a location take place in each ., ' Mr . Clark secondsd the motion , which was carried unanimously . Mr . Hobson moved , and Mr . Doyle seconded thefollowing resoluton , " That the number of districts be five . " ¦ " ' ii i
Mr . Wheeler moved , and Mr . Taylor seconded , the motion , " That tho number of districts be two- — England and Scotland . " The society could not be carried out unless the resolution passed yesterday stood . Mr . Leach : The division of the country inte districts is the best plan that can be adopted , and the present resolution will not stultify the acts of yesterday . Mr . Doyle : Entirely differed with Mr . Clark , although the seconder of the resolution passed yesterday , that the present resolution docs not stultify the previous acts of tiic conference . Mr . O'Connor : What is being done now is doing an act of injustice to Manchester . The greater the number of the Manchester subscribers , the sooner it will be satiated , and by that means the other localities will sooner become entitled to the ballot . The whole plan entirely depends upon the practicability of purchase , allotment , sale , and re-purchase of the allotment .
Mr . Vallance : Had Mr . Clark's motion , passedyesterday , been discarded by Mr . O'Connor ' s suggestion , it would have been mueh better . He should however , now , vote for Mr . Ilobson ' s motion . No doubt when it becomes generally known the country is divided into four districts there will be great competition in paying up the subscription . Mr . Taylor : The conference must legislate for the mass and not for individuals , Mr . Cuffay would vote for Mr . Wheeler ' s amendment . The conferencesecmcdverydifh'dentin vesting power in the hands of the directors .
Mr . Canning won Id support the motion of Mr . Hob . son , but could not agree with some of the speakers that if the resolution of yesterday had stood , the land would have been purchased in Lancashire . Mr . Shaw : The motion of Mr . Hobson came near to realise what had been stated , not to removed the shareholders from their usual place of residence . Mr . Ilobson : You should not put the whole ofthe members either in Lancashire or Yorkshire into one district . For the amendment 4 Original motion „ 12
Mr . Hobson , in moving the ioliowing resolution , stated , that it would , as far as practicable , remedy the evil of causing parties to remove from their districts . " That when the directors have selected a locality , and made a purchase in accordance with the previous resolutions , the requisite number of residents for the allotments , on such purchase , shall be selected out of the members resident- in such district who have paid up their shares . " Mr . Smith seconded the motion . Mr . Knight would oppose the motion of Mr . Hobson with all the energy he possessed . Mr . Dixon then moved the followingamendment : — . " That the ballot be taken from the whole of the shareholders in the association who have paid up theiy snares . — - - Mr . Leach seconded the amendment .
Mr . Vallance : Observations had l _» een dropped , ij he would not mention any names , that the con- ; i ference were coming to the same conclusion as last "j night ; that he denied ; the question last night was _^ | whether the selection of occupants should lie made * 1 before the purchase or after . No doubt that where 1 tTie greatest number of members were , there would j be the greatest chance of the members being located . | He should , therefore , vote for Mr . Dixon ' s amend- : | ment . _ty Mr . Cuffay would vote for Mr . Dixon ' s amend- r ? S ment . __ - , _' , Mr . Doyle : Every man who has paid up his share j will have his chance of the prize . Do not clog the ¦ _'¦] shareholders , for if you do you will do a great injury - -. _¦* ¦* and injustice to the society . '•'*
Mr . Clark : In ease of parties not wishing _Relocate in the Manchester district , they might give notice to the general secretary , who would then communicate with the district , and thus enable the shareholders in that district to have another chance of a prize—this is perfectly applicable to every district . By this means , without bartering the shares , you satisfy the wish of both parties . There are numbers of shareholders in _Devonshire who would relinquish their prizes if they were certain of getting a location near their own residence . Mr . Sherrington : The majority of shareholders , no doubt , could wish to reside in their respective districts .
Mr . O'Connor : You can never exclude the adoption of chances from operation in this society . There are plenty of men in Manchester who would be glad to give a bonus to members who may not wish to be located in the fortunate district . B y Mr . Dixon ' s motion you give every member a chance ; _bst if you coufinc the chance to a particular district , it would be a very great injustice . You further the adoption of the principle of " Home , Sweet Home , " by making the ballot from the whole members . Mr . Ilobson : What does Mr . Clark propose by his * resolution ? Why , he proposes that the ballot , in cases where the parties refused , or declined to locate where they had obtained the prize , be extended to the whole shareholders ; thus giving them two chances . The resolution proposed by himself would provide the greatest amount of benefit to the shareholders .
Mr . Leach : The discussion of the question of the transfer of shares is very premature . The object of the amendment is to give the chances to the whole bo _* ly of paid-up shareholders . Mr . G . W . Wheeler moved the following resolution : — "That the whole ofthe proceedings ofthe conference , as related to Mr . Clark ' s resolution of the previous day , should be rescinded . Ml' . M'Grath moved the suspension of the standing orders , which was seconded by Mr . O'Conner . On a division—Mr . Wheeler ' s amendment 1 Mr . Dixon's ] 2 Mr . Hobson ' s ft
AFTERNOON SITTING . . Ml " . O'Connor : We have affirmed a great many principles of the society—we havo affirmed the enrolment—the selection of occupants by ballot—and division of the country into districts . The next subject of importance was the mortgage or sale oi land . He said that the object of the society was to purchase land in the wholesale market , anil sell it in the retail market , for the benefit of the working classes . The more labour you employ upon the land the greater the value of that laud . Seeing the value of labour , that is the principle that should guide your consideration , as to the mortgage or sale of the land . Home property is not so valuable a sccurity _* as a fee-farm rent . In the first place , we must
commence with mortgage . There are two descriptions of mortgage—you purchase an estate and pay so much down , leaving the remaining portion on mortgage ; in the second , you purchase an estate and sell it immediately . Quit and crown rents are sold at forty years purchase . By the application of labour you raise a thing of £ 5 a-year to the value of £ 8 a-year ; a principle should be affirmed , that it should be left to the discretion of the directors whether the property bought should be sold or mortgaged in tlie first instance . He then moved the following : — Itesolvecl , " That the trustees and directory shall have the power to raise money upon the property of the association by loan , mortgage , or sale , for the purpose of carrying out the objects of the society . "
Mr . Vallance : 'ihe shareholders of Barnsley had instructed him to suggest that the estate should be mortgaged instead of sale . Increase the value of laud from the application of labour . If , in the case of the land being _oflcred for sale at the expiration of the third or fourth year , is there not an inducement to the holders to exercise frugality , and very likely save sufficient to purchase their own allotments . These being his ideas upon the subject , he was _& ecidedly i _« favour of mortgage , and concluded by seconding the resolution . Mr . Cuffay supported the motion . Mr . G . W . Wheeler stated that he was instructed to support the system of mortgage instead of sale , and that some of his constituents were ready to advance £ S 0 O by way ef mortgage .
Mr . O'Connor stated that he had a promise of a loan fund to the extent of £ 20 . 000 , as soon as the rules of the society were enrolled . There was no difference between loan and mortgage . Mr . Knight supported the motion . The resolution was carried unanimously . Mr . Ilobson stated that he was aware that it was the intention of some parties to introduce a loan fund m connection with the societv , and would , therelore move , I hat in the opinionjo ' i ' this conference , it will greatly conduce to the security of the society if ail advances of money out of the capital of the society to the occupant , to enable him to occupy , should be considered , a loan bearing interest , for which each borrower shall give security . "
Mr . O'Connor : In this case we must not only amrm a principle , but we must also show our abilit y to carry it out . If we are able to pay back the money , it is an act of justice ; but if not able to return the money it is an act of injustice . By the operation of co-operation , the society will be enabled to give to every member £ -70 worth of property for the rent of £ 5 a-year . I propose , for the protection _ot _^ ie _^ ittem r bers , for the honour of the society , —L _^ o _3 } S « i _^\ [ Continued in Wr _Etyttti ge _^ _M _^ _A protection Qt _^ _iSSlfBDv ociety , —l _Wojwift _^ is _^ i , / i
Ar00109
" And National Trades' Journal. . . ¦ I
AND NATIONAL TRADES' JOURNAL . . . ¦
In - — . . — ¦¦¦ ¦ ~ Ii Vol. Ix. No. 422...
- — . . — _¦¦¦ ¦ ~ VOL . IX . NO . 422 . LONDON , SATURDAY , DECEMBER 13 , 1845 . _„ _JZ _^ fS _^ _fS _£ _¦¦„„ ¦ i .. ' _. " . . ' " ¦¦ . _.. _. ' .... - =
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), Dec. 13, 1845, page unpag, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse2.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/ns4_13121845/page/1/
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